69: Infektion

00:00 We have only 35 chambers. There is no 36th! I know that, but...I want to create a new chamber Oh? And what would that be? MOFACTS with Adam Curry for October 27 2021 This is episode number 69! I'm Adam Curry coming to you from the heart of Texas Hill Country and it's time once again To get ready to spin The Wheel Of Topics With here from Northern Virginia. Please everybody say hello to my friend on the other end Mr Mo Facts. How you doing Adam? I am good, Mo! Good to hear from ya. I'm a dog owner. I saw... And thank you for posting that picture of Rocco holy crap what a beautiful dog. I appreciate that. Rocco is a superstar oh yes he goes like

00:54 Everybody yeah, everybody. Yes is what we when we were when we were young we used to call that a chick magnet yes He's a people magnet Everywhere we go is like people ask, how's Rocco doing? Like I'm doing fine. Thanks about asking about my dog. Welcome to the club! Yeah exactly that's right That's where the first thing your wife does when she comes home is says hi to the dog you're second now It's very interesting how that works All right should we give it a whirl Please. Alright everybody, time to spin it up here is that wheel of topics where it stops nobody knows the only person who actually knows his mo because he put another banger together for us the topic of episode number 69 of Mo Facts with Adam Curry is operation infection oh are we going to the third rail Mr. Mo

01:49 We are not going to talk about COVID. This is not a COVID show. Okay, attention this is NOT A COVID SHOW! I'm making it very clear this is NOT A COVID SHOW. What this is...is we've danced around the 800-pound gorilla in the room. We've talked about Tuskegee—not in detail but we talked about it—we've talked even Henrietta Lacks, and we went there on the potluck with the 800-pound gorilla in the room of why I think so called black people, the community quote unquote a community and big quotes is AIDS. Why the community is hesitant you mean? Yes Wow this is something white America has not heard

02:42 AIDS the way AIDS was handled the way people perceive AIDS to be and it's amazing I haven't heard anybody talk about this well except for no agenda Because I have definitely made the comparison because it's the same damn people what if in is not really just With a people involved we're gonna definitely look at that, but just these psychological Baggage that came along with AIDS and it still exists With so-called black people or a quote unquote black people. Yes, it's kind of like It's for everybody else has gone away but it still lingers with us because the amount of propaganda that went behind it the amount of fear That came with it

03:40 But I haven't heard, we've talked about it once again is Henrietta Lacks. You know the first reflexive one we always talk about and you asked me about it was Tuskegee. Why does everybody bring up Tuskegee? That's just a reflex. Which is exactly what you said and I totally accepted that but then what I remember distinctly as you saying certainly for black men the only thing that doctor gives me is the knife or the pill Correct. I'm just saying when a talking point standpoint of it of When somebody backs you to the corner, so why don't you want to take it? A nice reflex party get them up off You was Tuskegee It just rolls off the tongue and it kind of works right and of course we've understand as I'm as you illustrate it not um Related to you was of course. I mean that's all anything they do have to offer is appeal or a knife

04:32 So who wants bad news? I was shocked to find out that you didn't go to the doctor. Oh, no No, I've I've read the last time I act well now that's not true I had some weird thing which turned out to be believe it or not jock itch. I'll just say it. I've never had in my life I'm not a jock That actually, you know is like a shit what's going on went to the emergency clinic That was the first time and at least I'm gonna say 35 years that have been to an actual doctor. Once a month, I go to the functional medicine voodoo guy and we do you know... We look at it as a different way of looking at it more medicine man And it works for me and I feel great so and a little bit of acupuncture

05:17 And I'm not saying people don't go to the doctor, but because we go to like a sim of course you have to make the appointment to get The yearly and that kind of thing But if you feel a little pain in your arm or you know saying like it joints a little loose. It's like I'll work it out You know that kind of thing right? If you're seriously going on please please guys That's not what we're saying here um but I want to address this because hopefully at the end of this show I can illustrate the anxiety from that standpoint, which I haven't heard anybody talk about. And when I said that was...I haven't even heard anybody say AIDS. AIDS is-the way the AIDS was handled and the way the AIDS was rolled out there Well then my guess is- No no! I think you may be factually correct we'll leave it at that yes Right so um I guess what we need to do is get into the bag and we're gonna start with a look back of 40 years on AIDS

06:14 At first, the deadly intruder did not have a name. The lifestyle of some male homosexuals has triggered an epidemic of a rare form of cancer But it quickly developed a reputation And the deaths kept coming and coming The fear was palpable I was terrified of passing on HIV to someone else but in the years that followed It's pretty miraculous for me So is the bravery Because of them...I can live a healthy and happy life We sat down with four gay men from four different generations all living with HIV. The oldest is Jesse Myland, who's still haunted by the beginning of the epidemic. People who because they had been diagnosed suddenly disappeared and we all knew what that silence meant. Jesse was diagnosed in the 80s after losing his partner George and so many others It was hard

07:12 Keep it superior. At the time, many leaders were accused of ignoring the crisis because it was deemed a gay disease. President Reagan didn't give his first major speech on AIDS until 1987 six years after the first diagnosed case We must have a definition of AIDS For Dr Anthony Fauci The epidemic was a turning point In 1984 he became the nation's top infectious disease expert The same job he holds today It might be, you know I did a lot of research on AIDS. A lot of friends of mine died which is why i was very interested in the research Well let me ask you this just so it might be the way I view things

08:03 Since you had a lot of friends with Dr. AIDS, is it as scary now as it was then when it first came about? Oh no I mean Eddie Murphy summed that up perfectly That's how we thought You put your dick in and explodes So the fear then... No no no Of course not Well let me just say there are couple things about AIDS because there's a distinction between AIDS which is autoimmune deficiency syndrome, which means that your immune system is in a weakened state and it can turn into a syndrome. That's not the disease you don't catch AIDS what was posited was that the human HIV this virus got in and that's what was transmitted and that gave you AIDS

09:01 What I what I personally believe just to set it straight up front is that yes HIV they finally prove something That said okay. This is HIV It took a while to be able to prove that very interesting kind of the same way with coronavirus But in my mind, it was the treatment namely rejected cancer drug AZT That's what was killing people people who went different places and there's many YouTube documentaries on you YouTube You can see particularly the clinic in, I think it was Mexico. They had different treatment and nobody died and so to me it was that the treatment was worse than the cure

09:45 Well, I'll say this and maybe this is cultural but i think in certain southern cities like Atlanta. I think some places in Mississippi Alabama one out of every two gay men will catch HIV. That was the marketing at the time? No, now. That's the facts now! Yes but I don't see how that message is getting through because now they've come up with this product which is PrEP P-R-E-P Right And this is some magical pill that you take and then even if you have HIV you're not going to die

10:26 As it's sold, but like I said when you start looking this is where the psychological aspect comes in that. I mean me coming of...I'm an 80s baby. I was born in 1980 so you gotta think You get sexually active in your teenage years. This is at like the height of the AIDS scare Oh, no you guys got a rough deal man I mean we'd already had some notches on our belt by the time this thing rolled around And it's generational right because like my dad was the only thing We had to worry about you go get a shot for that kind of and that was the kind of laissez-faire attitude about it Yeah But now every time you Gary to have a sexual interaction It could be life or death.

11:09 Well, that's what they say. I mean again, I have my different opinion but that's the marketing yeah, I'm saying this psychological Baggage I remember I remember I think Foushee even saying well We're not sure you might be able to get it just from touching someone or maybe from a doorknob I mean I heard it all from out of his mouth Well, there's my grandma was like boy take the 8-pin out your mouth where you get aids at the mouth Yeah That was the kind of psychological what I'm saying is that baggage? Yeah Yeah, the way it was rolled out and the way it was presented And they kind of like oh everybody could equally get it from any kind of sexual act I'm saying. I'm not saying this is scientific what I'm saying is this was a marketing that was the market yeah This is the marking that we received and now hopefully as we go through these clips you can understand the reluctancy to

12:04 in medicine, when you have this kind of thing that just looms. I mean every time you're gonna have a sexual interaction it could be life or death! That was the intent it was there to scare absolutely yeah so what I want to do now like I said we had to get into the guy Fauci and some background on him with clip three At the October 13, 1988 presidential debate Michael Dukakis and George H.W Bush were asked... Who are the heroes who are there in American life today? Who are the ones that you would point out to young Americans as figures who should inspire this country I'm Escalante, Villaderas Those people that took us back into space again Sports heroes Vice President Bush eventually responded with Signing a Dr. Fauci Probably never heard of him

12:59 You did and heard him. He's a very fine research top doctor at National Institute of Health working hard doing something about Research on this disease of AIDS Today, Dr. Anthony S Fauci is best known because of his position in the coronavirus task force and for his many media appearances In the U.S., he's one of the most recognizable faces in the current crisis How did this doctor go from his research lab in Bethesda, Maryland to becoming one of the most visible medical experts on the pandemic today?

13:34 Mmm. Yes indeed I wonder how that happened so that's from Vox and They explain explains how dr.. Fauci came to be but what I find interesting is Through all of this, I didn't know who dr. Fauci was until Kovac happen You would think he would be arm and arm with the so-called community, but you have a still looming crisis. Like I said when you look at the numbers me being a super straight black man i'm kind of down on the numbers but for homosexual men and women black women this thing they lead in all in both sides in their respective categories by a significant amount

14:22 You would think he would have a presence or we wouldn't know who he is. Well, again for me it was I saw him and Burks, Dr. Burks both of them were very...I mean I saw Fauci at parties in Hollywood so you You were young and I think there was 20 years in between, but for the people who also remember the scathing Village Voice front page article at the time in New York calling Fauci out for murdering people. I mean you know what Moe? We forget! We forget we get distracted this other crap going into our brains and there's no one recalling this. You're absolutely right it behooves none of those guys to say oh remember when we did the AIDS thing so well

15:06 But the thing is, it's not finished. No of course not! Well for certain people it is I mean if you have the money their health insurance the bottles the uh the pep drug that you was talking about uh it's not a concern of yours and this is probably gonna be something for The Lost Tapes is getting into the drug commercials and how they're overrepresented by black women and homosexual men when they sell these drugs. That's a problem in itself. I'll agree with that because we've noticed that too, because i see the prep commercial like

15:43 And it communicates like no more AIDS. It was exactly what she indicates Yeah, but that's not true and then but it is it's like a paradox because one you're representing gay men and black women in these commercials Outside the distribution there in a department normal population But then you say oh, there's no more aids It's like well hold on if there's no more A's than why they've been represented that way of good question You can't have a nest for people that are paying attention and like I said this thing has been going on for 40 years now. No cure, not even the interest is not even there anymore. Even Matt Johnson he's post AIDS

16:38 Yeah, and also I have a hard time... what's difficult is that I just don't believe AIDS if you catch AIDS that you're gonna die. When I say AIDS, I'm rolling HIV. Right but what I'm saying is... That's how it's sold! So what you make a really good point so why is that representation there? If it's pretty much solved. I mean that right? I got you I got because that's that is the general consensus The way, I see it as oh, you know this prep and so it's pretty much solved We're post-aid we're post AIDS correct But we're not and like I said me being a super straight black man. I have the least amount of risk Especially being married. I mean I'm locked in so

17:24 I don't, it wouldn't happen. But let me ask you a question. Please! Do you know anyone who died of AIDS? I do in that very early age. I mean this is the same story. But recent or long time ago? I well, i don't know uh No, I don't okay. So so we agree but I don't know anybody that had it I mean so to say that they died from it. I didn't I didn't I didn't Know that very many people that had aids um the one that stuck with me was a little girl That was assaulted by her stepfather and got it very young. I mean, that's what kind of like is stuck with me because i'm talking about very like Uh single digit age

18:06 She was a victim of a sex crime basically caught it and died. And that's coming but you hear the horror stories, you know people like in church and that kind of thing, you know of people But I just want to make sure that you and iron on the same wavelength here I don't believe in the story well, I mean, that's that's enough what I'm gonna say this I believe in the symptoms When you see these guys suffering, I mean i watched a lot of videos. No no, my point is those symptoms came from the treatment not from the HIV But they're not using the same treatment anymore

18:51 Or are they? I mean, you just opened up another word. Because i don't think anyone is getting sick like that anymore. Everyone's on... They are! That's my point! Just go on YouTube and search black people AIDS Like serious symptoms Okay hold on a second now you freak me out with a whole other thought You really freaked me out Could it be this thing is only being either functioning on black people or directed to function on black people? Well that's a whole nother and we talked about with COVID, and this is not a COVID show. We talked about COVID

19:35 You know, the theory that there's more receptors in the nose for black people. It's like what I mean? Let's get into it Except in Africa for some reason right but let's let's get into the clips Okay And I think I could say I like the fact that we're on two total different pages here Because I think is gonna make for a very interesting conversation number four The June 5th 1981 weekly report by the Centers for Disease Control was a notable one. It recorded five unusual cases of pneumonia

20:19 These cases would become known as some of the earliest reports of AIDS. The next year, Dr Anthony Fauci wrote an early paper about the disease which had increased to 290 recognized cases and had become a public health problem of essentially epidemic proportions. Fauci worked at the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases NIAID. Heading up a lab that studied immune system response, NIAID conducts research on diseases to help understand treat and prevent them it falls under the National Institutes of Health or NIH the medical research agency part of the Department of Health and Human Services

21:01 In the early 80s, the NIH had many institutes with NIAID and National Cancer Institute leading investigation of the new virus and disease that would become known as HIV AIDS. Fauci made that investigation the focus of his career Today we're going to be listening to Dr. Anthony Fauci, he's going to be talking about AIDS I'm working directly on AIDS both clinically and from a basic science standpoint that really is one of the few or actually one of the only subjects where you really have to change your lecture every month Wow He was well practiced there Interesting interesting to hear his difference in voice too

21:45 Completely different. Are we starting to see a pattern here? But like I said, this is not what this is not a coven show right but always want to make it clear I'm not talking about the science behind it. I'm not talking about anything. I'm just you're saying Messaging talk about as the psychological baggage the psyop if with you that don't wants use it in that term of being fake but the No, psyop is a correct word. It's the psychological operation absolutely that still exist and I'm just fascinated ongoing up Yes active active op you know cuz the reason why I said you you say have Seems like very close gay friends and in a good can a good size of in quantity That they're not feeling this same fear

22:36 that's being still spot, I mean like now get tested. Get tested your partner you know gotta know your partner get tested it is a constant focus. Oh well this is interesting because yes I certainly have many gay acquaintances and friends and for sure there is a testing culture definitely is a testing culture but not after the fact its a pre- it's like oh here's my test from last week or whatever That's definitely there, but the fear? The way it was? No. Nowhere near!

23:13 That's very interesting and like I said, we're gonna get on down the list. And by the way that's only the white gays...I know one black gay but he was HIV positive when i met him He worked for me for many years and he is still alive and I could ask him Like I said 1 out of 2 and then we factor in comorbidities which nobody is talking about that There another thing yeah So it's like I'm just blown back that it's that big a divide. Man, I'm just shocked! But let's go and get to, so we're going back now to the Today Special with Joe Fryer. And this is looking back on age 40 years. When there is resistance was it hard to get the resources you needed? Well in the beginning it was I mean we were trying to convince people that this was not something that was gonna go away This is something that was gonna get worse and worse

24:11 To raise awareness, the AIDS memorial quilt was unveiled on the National Mall. His organizers read the names of those who died. Some shared their stories publicly, including actor Rock Hudson, teen Ryan White who tested positive after a blood transfusion, real world star Pedro Zamora and basketball legend Magic Johnson In 1995, a combo therapy known as the AIDS cocktail was ushered in followed by even better medications offering hope But there was no cure for the stigma. Right now, there are millions of people with HIV suffering from social rejection because they and other people believe that they're infectious and they're not diagnosed in 2003 Bruce Richman says he was terrified of giving HIV to someone else so I didn't love

25:03 I just, isolated myself. I was depressed and at times I was suicidal But then he learned medication could reduce his viral load to undetectable levels meaning he couldn't transmit the virus So Bruce started an advocacy group and coined the phrase U equals you Undetectable equals untransmittable message endorsed by the CDC It gave me hope It meant that I could be intimate. People with HIV can live healthy lives and not pass on the virus to anyone, and that's a revolution." Oh! I'm so happy you're doing this show because this is the show that I probably couldn't put together myself certainly not from the angle that i've always looked at it So your approach is really refreshing way to do this Because ultimately... And I love these comparisons I think it was all a scam You know? From day one

25:56 Were people really dying? Yeah, where'd it come from? It's all the same players. Same thing as we're seeing now and this has been repeated in the interim as well multiple times and always comes down to We're gonna save you and you'll be able to live again And I always say it starts with us This was the test room in my mind. Yeah, I'm with you on that This was the test run As you heard several things one in the previous clip before this one. Oh, it's always changing It's one of those things that you know is gonna always You know your studies are going to be changing two or three weeks and that kind of thing that kind of attitude To they had a quilt then white flags now

26:41 Totally, totally. I love this we'll go through all the comparisons it's gonna be good and then the other thing was what did I say out of fear isolated yeah I felt like I couldn't you know could have me around stigma stigma Yeah, but I have a totally different. You figure out at the end what my stance is? I don't want to ruin it for you or the producers out there but let's go ahead and get into number six Today, about 38 thousand Americans are still diagnosed each year. DeAndre Moore was 19. Remember staring at a window covered in butterfly stickers? In that moment all I could think was, damn if i could be one of those butterflies and just fly away from here then everything is going to be okay

27:30 Ray Eftirazi had a similar reaction. He was 27. So I knew next to nothing about what it meant to be diagnosed with HIV, it was a steep learning curve And what did you learn? Well, I learned that I'm not gonna die and...I'm alive and well You think back to that moment with the butterfly, what would you tell yourself in that moment? They're gonna be okay. And they're gonna be just as beautiful. Today all four of these men are undetectable and all are advocates sharing their stories to educate the public and fight this stigma It's taken us 30 years of the AIDS crisis To teach the whole world That our lives and our loves Are equal to everyone else

28:17 It blows my mind just how far we've come and then, just what's possible now. So... What is possible now? My mind immediately says what isn't possible That's the answer When was this aired on Today Show? This was aired last year I believe. Hmm, it's good! I love the music changes and everything is well done. Oh it is good right?! It's good. So let me ask you this question why do we have so many new cases they made a point to express there's bunch of new cases 36,000 a year I think they said Right we have this PrEP drug Yeah these are fools haven't taken it The Fools

29:04 No, well shouldn't well. Prep doesn't actually I think prep doesn't actually stop you from getting AIDS That's what that's what they just said undetectable equals uns- What did the guy say? Undetectable equals unspreadable or something like that Shit we should go back hold on a second where was that? I think it's uh no It's in clip two at the end like half maybe last 30 seconds Okay hold on a second Transmit the virus so Bruce started an advocacy group and coined the phrase- Back up just a little bit We hit it right. I didn't love, I just isolated myself back a little further no no you're good okay yeah because they and other people believe that they're infectious and they're not 2003 Bruce Richmond says

29:46 That's it? No, no keep going. He was terrified of giving HIV to someone else So I didn't love...I just isolated myself. I was depressed and at times I was suicidal But then he learned medication could reduce his viral load to undetectable levels meaning he couldn't transmit the virus so Bruce started an advocacy group and coined the phrase U equals you Undetectable equals untransmittable Message endorsed Wait, endorsed by the CDC? Endorsed by the CDC. Okay. Undetectable equals untransmittable. So why are we having new cases? Shouldn't we be trying to flatten that curve? I'm just asking! Yeah, we should lock them all up. Lock everybody up! I wasn't gonna go there but shouldn't we make PrEP drugs available for free

30:39 to help this community, the LGBT community which this drug especially the dark LGBT community. Why are these drugs not available for free? Well I don't know so i don't know the availability and the cost. I don't know if they are covered under a government or social health care programs why can't I walk in my safe way Right now and get free prep drugs if this will flatten the curve have you tried? I know I'm being facetious, but I just know I did of course. I know what I can walk into a safe way and get for free right now This is true If we're being acted in good faith like it's not I'm just asking that question

31:29 Yeah, no I agree. It's Truvada is the... Is a bunch of them Well that's the main one? I guess it's over 30 Oh wow! Is it generic by now? So I know what's over thirty and I know obviously in those commercials for a long time A very long time yeah so I'm sure it is generic but I'm just saying it shouldn't even be prescription it should be just like... Candy! Like Halloween candy Well you should be able to go pick it up off your shelf and as an over-the-counter If we could save lives, I mean if that's what we're doing. I'm being contrary in a way saying that one and you can't have it both ways You can't have it That this is still lingering epidemic which it is because like I said people are catching me and dying from it but at the same time The thing that could solve this problem

32:23 To make it untransmittable is not being doled out with the same energy. Holy crap! Is it because... Yeah, a month's supply of Truvada without insurance? Wanna take a guess? Uhhh 350 Try 2000 Oh How about that But these people of color In the LGBT community, and I know it's more than that. Yeah they can just cough it up or die is your point? Why isn't not readily available? This a very good question! Is it because who it is?! Well you want my answer? My answer is... No, I'm being rhetorical. Make make it make sense is what I'm saying. Okay well all right let's look okay so clearly this has to be about money

33:21 Otherwise, why would they be doing it this way? So a bigger question is if they've traumatized black America so-called black America But they can't afford it. Well then what are they doing to who were they who are they advertising too Is that's your question Yeah It was a very good question to the maybe there's doing just keep fear going and probably sell to that you know They sell enough to the rich people of all colors. Like I said, i'm just saying that these two marginalized groups of people... Mm-hmm should they are being treated very unfairly in this AIDS issue? I am agreement with you according to the social norms of today! Yes it is an outrage in fact we need to have posters yes do you really love me was the question yeah no well of course Moe you make a great point

34:19 Alright, so I think we stopped at six. Let's get into seven. Another key breakthrough in recent years PrEP it's a daily pill that people who are HIV negative can take to prevent getting the disease as for an HIV AIDS vaccine well that has not happened yet but Dr. Fauci tells me he is cautiously optimistic that someday we will have a vaccine that is successful 26 year old DeAndre Moore who you saw there hopes that he is some day going to be part of an AIDS-free generation. And we want to give a big thank you to three organizations that helped us with that story there, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, AIDS United and the Prevention Access Campaign. It's incredible to see how far we've come in those decades. We all remember those scenes in the 80s but there still is a stigma isn't it? That what you learned yeah there is and it's actually

35:03 kind of amazing especially with young people which is surprising. So a recent survey of HIV negative millennials found that nearly 1 third of them say they avoid hugging, talking to or even being friends with someone with HIV. People living with HIV often report being hesitant still to openly share their status because they fear losing friends or family, or they even fear abuse whether it's physical emotional or mental. This reminds us of Billy Porter just last week who just announced it. What a big sign of bravery even now is needed now more than before and he waited 14 years waited to tell his mother so that stigma still there Thank you Joe I didn't know that about Billy Porter A man this openly would wear dress was even afraid of the stigma

35:48 Yeah, and I'm saying the mean however you see it. I mean he's Will miss you know present himself as he is with that aspect of his life But his status no does he? Let me see Billy Porter does he do any commercials? I'm not I haven't seen him in any commercials um That can recall but it's a formula to those commercials. It's Always a whole bunch of them Okay, it's two black gay guys one brown gay guy a white guy A transgender person of any color and then a couple black women. You're so right here December 2019 Johnson & Johnson TV commercial HIV exploratory vaccine He said he's he's shilling for big pharma now. He's pushing the Vax We've talked about prep and why is not I

36:51 Ready available to the point where it should be over-the-counter. I would think Where like I said, I can walk in today acting get something for free Yeah if society decides that's what we need to do But we have these people they don't have two grand that can't afford these drugs and they're left to die, waste away. I mean it's the same nothings changed and it's like the tone of this whole thing why does it take Mo Faxon Adam Curry to have this conversation when these people are still wasting away like its 80s? Nothing has changed in 40 years for certain people. Correct certainly the fear has not gone away there is two generations that have been burdened with this

37:42 You want to hear Billy Porter in the Johnson & Johnson commercial? Please, go ahead. Knock it out! Let's see what he was doing back in the day here... This is 2019 Alright sitting down So listen I first started working with Johnson and Johnson because of their work in HIV They've been at it for over 30 years Developing medicine that allows people to live normal lives with HIV Educating people about how to protect themselves from HIV Training doctors and nurses Raising public awareness. And now, they are working to develop an exploratory vaccine that could one day prevent HIV altogether. After successful trials in Africa, clinical trials are about to start... How awesome is that? You go Johnson & Johnson! And you thought they were just a baby company

38:43 She's effective very effective. I know they do sell some poisonous powder allegedly yeah That's hilarious, it's amazing like what people to do but This vaccine, so now we got to get into that. Where they were at over the time this next clip comes from 2007 talking about the vaccine but it's amazing where was this new technology to help these marginalized communities?

39:20 Welcome to the New England Journal of Medicine. I'm Dr. Terri Schrader with me today is Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Fauci has written a perspective article entitled an HIV vaccine challenges and prospects to be published in the August 28, 2008 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. Welcome Dr. Fauci Thank you good to be here First of all why has the 30 year search for an AIDS vaccine been so unsuccessful? Well, probably the fundamental reason is that HIV is really quite different from any other virus for which we have successfully developed a vaccine. And the difference lies in the fact that the body and its natural response to natural infection does not make an adequate or appropriate immune response to do... Stop! Stop right there! I just caught something he said natural infection

38:43 She's effective very effective. I know they do sell some poisonous powder allegedly yeah That's hilarious, it's amazing like what people to do but This vaccine, so now we got to get into that. Where they were at over the time this next clip comes from 2007 talking about the vaccine but it's amazing where was this new technology to help these marginalized communities?

39:20 Welcome to the New England Journal of Medicine. I'm Dr. Terri Schrader with me today is Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Fauci has written a perspective article entitled an HIV vaccine challenges and prospects to be published in the August 28, 2008 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. Welcome Dr. Fauci Thank you good to be here First of all why has the 30 year search for an AIDS vaccine been so unsuccessful? Well, probably the fundamental reason is that HIV is really quite different from any other virus for which we have successfully developed a vaccine. And the difference lies in the fact that the body and its natural response to natural infection does not make an adequate or appropriate immune response to do... Stop! Stop right there! I just caught something he said natural infection

40:21 Ooh, let me roll that back. Hold on a second. I heard that clip 10 times! I've never heard that before. Oh just listen again. Just listen again. Why has the 30 year search for an AIDS vaccine been so unsuccessful? Well, probably the fundamental reason is that HIV is really quite different from any other virus for which we have successfully developed a vaccine. And the difference lies in the fact that the body and its natural response to natural infection does not make an adequate or appropriate immune response to do what virtually every other exposure to other viruses do. Interesting you put that in there

41:00 What's the unnatural? I mean if you had to say natural then what's an unnatural infection? Injection. Maybe, I'm just saying...I've never heard that. Good question or it could mean natural as in some pathogen or virus that is natural and not jacked up in a lab And take some examples smallpox, measles, polio all of those viruses can kill they can maim they could make people seriously ill but at the end of the day

41:37 the body's immune system ultimately clears the virus from the body, eradicates it completely and allows the body to have protection against subsequent challenge. So nature has already done the experiment that tell us that not only is a vaccine feasible, a vaccine is likely because we know the immune response is capable of doing that. The problem with HIV is that literally in an unprecedented way HIV does not elicit a protective immune response in the body. And, in fact of the tens of millions of people who have been infected with HIV there's not a single documented case of someone with established infection who has actually eradicated the virus from the body and the vast overwhelming majority of people have progressive disease despite an immune response to the virus so we have to do something

42:30 that others who do vaccines for other viruses don't have to do. We have to better than nature, we have to better than natural infection." Man this guy's had a good rap for a long time! We gotta do better than natural infection? You gotta do better than nature which to my ears say we gotta do better than God Sure Just as a believer That what I hear and like what Yeah, that's a natural infection. I don't understand because even if you presented A vaccine to somebody as in like the normal vaccines flu whatever That's still at the natural infection and I know what an unnatural infection it that troubles me I mean like well never heard of before and I'm still processing let's see if there's Let's see if there's a an entry anywhere that natural infection versus

43:26 Vaccination. Okay, natural infection is the opposite or is the... No it's not the word say this is from science This from Rockefeller these are the guys that make shit up so they might as well be defined Natural infection versus vaccination So if you are vaccinated You have been infected in a non-natural way vaccines. I'm going to go back and listen to that clip, but not now. I understand what you're saying. I understand what he's saying because he then goes on and say a natural infection and then he specifies like vaccination like it is in line with natural infection if you give them the vaccine in a natural infection this one will tell you why I heard and I am not saying thats what he meant but to my ears its like if you give them a vaccine of a natural infection the immune system can kick in

44:25 He didn't say them like they were too conflicting or... I think it's worth listening again. Let's listen again critically, the two of us yeah this is what hey it's a podcast if people are bored they can fast forward 2 minutes we will be right back with you Welcome to the New England Journal of Medicine I'm Dr Terry Schrader With me today is Dr Anthony Fauci Director of The National Institute of Allergy and Infections of Health Here we go Dr Fauci has written a perspective article entitled An HIV Vaccine challenges and prospects to be published in the August 28, 2008 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine. Welcome Dr Fauci! Thank you good to be here And maybe a reminder for ourselves at this time of interview there was no mRNA voodoo No it's 2007, 2000 is straight up Yeah so that means that way vaccines worked is attenuated virus, dead virus

45:17 a deactivated virus, even the vaccine. That's how it was done. First of all why has the 30 year search for an AIDS vaccine been so unsuccessful? Well, probably the fundamental reason is that HIV is really quite different from any other virus for which we have successfully developed a vaccine. And the difference lies in the fact that the body and its natural response to natural infection does not make an adequate or appropriate immune response to do what virtually every other exposure to other viruses do. Alright so he's saying

45:53 That everybody that there's tens of millions of people who have this virus But these tens of millions of people who have this virus their body doesn't react to it like it's a hostile intruder Correct interesting. Okay and take some examples smallpox measles Polio all those viruses can kill they can maim they could make people seriously ill but at the end of the day the body's immune system ultimately clears the virus from the body, eradicates it completely and allows the body to have protection against subsequent challenge. So nature has already done the experiment that tell us that not only is a vaccine feasible, but a vaccine is likely because we know the immune response is capable of doing that. The problem with HIV is that literally in an unprecedented way

46:46 HIV does not elicit a protective immune response in the body. And, in fact of the tens of millions of people who have been infected with HIV there's not a single documented case of someone with established infection who has actually eradicated the virus from the body and the vast overwhelming majority of people have progressive disease despite an immune response to the virus so we have to do something that... Okay hold on wow this is really good So what he this is and do you have anything about PCR coming up because the PCR test was developed Around the same time as the AIDS crisis, and it was being used as a test And this is where Carrie Mullis the inventor of PCR said This is not a this. You cannot use this as a test for HIV because

47:44 everyone has HIV if you magnify it enough. We've talked about the cycles and how many times... Yeah, more cycles, more cases. So it's mind-boggling out of this is a very important clip actually It's mind boggling because here he saying oh you know like tens of millions of people have it And no one's ever gotten rid of it. That's you could you can replace that with tens of millions of people have Corona SARS-CoV2 If you do a PCR test just like HIV, but they never get rid of it No because no one can get rid of everything So he this clip to me is him saying You know what? There's all these people who have it and some people go on to be sick But no one else does

48:30 This is very interesting. Wait, now he's saying something different! No, hold on. Now he's saying... Wait let's go back I'm missing something here. Protective immune response in the body and in fact of the tens of millions of people who have been infected with HIV there is not a single documented case of someone with established infection who has actually eradicated the virus from the body and the vast overwhelming majority of people have progressive disease despite an immune response to the virus so we have to do something

49:14 that others who do vaccines for other viruses don't have to do. We have to do better." He's saying something contradictory! That's why I told you, like I said we could just leave... Yeah, yeah we will because that was some mumbo-jumbo right there beautiful. Because the two things he is saying conflict but we'll just take him at his word. No, no I'm just saying it because the reason why i am saying that is kind of like The main point of it is out of all these viruses, here comes something that's so surgical. No pun intended that it attacks the very system that should detect it. Yep. Huh? But you say its not natural those are two only take away I'm taking from it So what is it and now we're going to get more into the efficacy or the vaccine they've tried for HIV in number nine

50:14 For the first time a vaccine has tested positive in preventing HIV infections. That's according to a US funded study involving more than 16,000 volunteers in Thailand The combination vaccine prevented infections and about 30% of the people on the trial as compared with those on a placebo The combination vaccine includes Alvac made by Sanofi Aventis and AIDSVAC made by VaxGen Neither vaccine has independently stopped the HIV virus in previous studies. AIDS experts say the results could transform future research and spur scientists to use the process that created this vaccine, to create even better ones. Well Matt, The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease funded the breakthrough HIV vaccines study. Its director Dr Anthony Fauci is a top federal official responsible for AIDS research he joins us right now

51:06 Dr. Fauci, great to have you with us! Give us some perspective we've been working on research for AIDS for many many years I mean how significant is this? Well, it's a very important finding in the sense that it has opened doors now that were really closed. And let me explain we have been attempting to get an effective vaccine for literally over two decades and everything that has been tried has been complete failure really no signal of any kind even slight efficacy that we have in this large trial involving 16,000 people a 31.2% efficacy it's a modest efficacy it's not something that's prime time as it were. Modest? 32 percent is modest! It's not even the middle man, below is below but okay and they're testing in Thailand and just Africa, Thailand yeah

52:04 There's a little background this was two years after the Sit-down with the New England Journal of Medicine. So this is 2009 now, okay? So if you want to go and jump into part 2 we can it's a modest efficacy It's not something that's prime time as it were but it's going to allow us to pursue what the potential mechanism Of that protection is because now we have a foundation upon which to ask the questions that will hopefully allow us to get efficacy of vaccines much higher than 30-ish percent up to 60, 70 or 80% where we want to be. So although this is a very important finding it needs to be taken in context and in perspective that its more of a road way to a lot of work that needs to be done as opposed to an end in and of itself. So I mean the question then what's next step here? Do you work more

52:56 With these vaccines, do you need a new trial? Maybe a more controlled study. Do you work on new vaccines that come from these vaccines? Where where do you see the next steps Dr. Fauci? Now that's it that's a very good question The next step is to try and figure out what we call the correlative immunity Go back and look at the samples We've collected draw bloods from the people who are in the trial And trying to figure out if there's a clue as to what particular laboratory parameter that you could follow, that would be an indication that it correlated with this protection. And once you get that then you start to design vaccines with some similarity and some differences that are aimed at inducing that particular parameter that you've linked

53:39 protection because up to now we don't have any idea of what other many, many immunological or laboratory phenomenon namely the body's ability to respond to a virus. We don't know what particular component of that would be associated with protection against infection. We didn't even know if it existed until recently because we've never had a positive effect like this. This is 2008, 2009 you said? 2009. Yeah they were already doing mRNA with this at this point I think he's already letting that slip through. I wanted...I didn't want to leave you there but 2007 he was for certain we don't even know what to do

54:20 And then now it's like, oh we have this new technology. Yeah and then Bloomberg brings you on and they're trying to pry you for financial information This is a financial...this is a financial I mean Bloomberg Oh he was on Bloomberg? Yes! Oh yeah well of course this is setting up Okay We haven't heard the name yet who's gonna be making Who are the licensees who got patents Uh huh yeah so which way do we go now Dr. If you could just listen to their tone in question They're like trying Prior apply for information. Yeah, they want to know if money's gonna flow that's what they want to know uh-huh So I didn't want to leave you to the mRNA but i'm thinking the same thing yeah That that big of a change in tone You have zero efficacy and you're shooting for 70 like he said the target was 60 or 70 percent up to 80

55:09 In that short period of time, I found it very interesting. But we can go ahead and get to number three. Alright so Dr Founty you've mentioned you've been working on this or everyone's been working on this for a couple decades You mentioned this is the foundation So how many more years are we talking potentially before there is um...the next significant step here? Well, you know to be honest with you I can't tell you that. It's certainly going to be measured in years. Some people when they hear an announcement like this they think well next year we're gonna wind up having a vaccine. That's not only extraordinarily unlikely it's virtually impossible that if that's gonna happen it's gonna be measured in years. I can't tell you how many is but if we had this conversation

55:47 six months ago when you asked me that, I would say i can't even tell you if we're even ever going to get a vaccine. now at least i have some cautious optimism that were on the right path but i cant put in number for you about how many years are there other steps uh... that are more likely to prevent prevent ah... stronger AIDS breakout? Are some people for example genetically predisposed resist the AIDS virus Yeah, there are a group of people but they are such a relatively small fraction of the population. There's a genetic defect that doesn't make anybody sick but it doesn't allow the virus to infect you It is seen in 1% of the Caucasian population and in virtually 0% of African populations so its not something that is broadly applicable to the population The best thing to do is behavioral things You know avoid unsafe sex

56:37 Use a condom when you have sex. Do the kinds of things that we've been talking about with prevention for a very long time." Six feet socially distanced during sex? Oh man! Moe, this is... I'm so happy you're doing this. This isn't not an easy show to put together So who's the 1% Oh, that's the rich white people brother. No, that's the lizard people It doesn't work on a lizard people Exactly thank you very much all right I identify with that remark very good. I love that odd like oh African-american But 1% of Caucasian people yeah Our appearing Caucasian people he should have slipped in a little boulay and I was really it was just rude

57:25 I'm not just saying like, well you know how we are with the lizard people. It's like does it not affect their species? Which will work perfectly if we all know all roles lead to depopulation so they're sitting back like hey 1% of us is just gonna be sitting around yeah put this thing out here now let me just go somewhere for a minute since we got here If you wanted to get rid of, have a controlled demolition of society and you want to get rid the undesirables at the time being homosexuals people of color if I'm that 1% that couldn't get infected say i am the lizard man AIDS is perfect it's like we can't catch it. It won't harm any people that we desire to stay around roll it out! This is exactly what

58:25 And it's kind of interesting in context of today. This is exactly how gay men felt, uh... Of all colors but all gay- All gay men felt that they were being targeted and Fauci in this was in the press! This was a mainstream Fauci is killing gay men to depopulate Well let's just war game now right? You know we know we're safe and heterosexual white people will pretty much be safe because they're adhering to the Judeo-Christian stance on marriage, so they're good. Now hold on, hold on... Yeah? You mean the way they thought or just in truth? No I'm saying the way the lizard people think! Oh okay, oh sorry gotcha yes okay. I'm thinking as a lizard. I see the tongue alright

59:11 It won't spill over and if it does spill over obviously they're participating in buggery or something that we feel is undesirable so they need to go too. I'm just saying. Yeah, no it's look the slogan AIDS is crowd control existed a long time ago this is definitely definitely a thought at the time yeah of course but I didn't know about this 1% that's kind of cool. The lizards. That's good Alright so um just this is a little snippet 30 seconds to hear you here the financial aspect of 3.5

59:51 Dr. Fauci, what does this do though for the drug companies around the world? We had Sanofi Aventis and I believe it was VaxGen who had the two vaccinations that were brought together in this recent development Does it harness everyone involved because of this kind of big step forward You know, I can't speak for pharmaceutical companies. They're going to make their business decisions based on what they do internally Do you think they'll be more interested with this development? Well that's a no-brainer of course they are going to be more interested in it if you have a successful product We're gonna leave it there. Dr Fauci, thanks so much! Dr Fauci director of the National Institute on Allergy and Infectious Disease. Very interesting collaboration they're just like Pfizer-BioNTech They were pressing them hard for a stock. This is what's crazy if you look at the players in the COVID vaccinations

59:11 It won't spill over and if it does spill over obviously they're participating in buggery or something that we feel is undesirable so they need to go too. I'm just saying. Yeah, no it's look the slogan AIDS is crowd control existed a long time ago this is definitely definitely a thought at the time yeah of course but I didn't know about this 1% that's kind of cool. The lizards. That's good Alright so um just this is a little snippet 30 seconds to hear you here the financial aspect of 3.5

59:51 Dr. Fauci, what does this do though for the drug companies around the world? We had Sanofi Aventis and I believe it was VaxGen who had the two vaccinations that were brought together in this recent development Does it harness everyone involved because of this kind of big step forward You know, I can't speak for pharmaceutical companies. They're going to make their business decisions based on what they do internally Do you think they'll be more interested with this development? Well that's a no-brainer of course they are going to be more interested in it if you have a successful product We're gonna leave it there. Dr Fauci, thanks so much! Dr Fauci director of the National Institute on Allergy and Infectious Disease. Very interesting collaboration they're just like Pfizer-BioNTech They were pressing them hard for a stock. This is what's crazy if you look at the players in the COVID vaccinations

1:00:47 Like Moderna, that wasn't even a... it was barely a company. It was just one big failed glob of crap and then everyone piled in! Everyone was buying shares and you know their stock has gone up like $300 or something. It's crazy! And I would like to see who those smaller companies that were listed in that part Were tied to right, you know cuz they're the midnight kind of probably like the Moderna of their time Oh sure a lot. You know these little outlets Yeah Like bio and tech moderna, you know Those are much smaller and then of course you have Pfizer which is that which is the big they've got the sales They've got the road. They got the Rolodex. They got the the sales channel

1:01:27 Well, now we're going to fast forward to present day and this is Fauci. He was brought on MSNBC to talk about the possibilities of an AIDS vaccine now that what we've seen with COVID-19 Let me ask you about actually the point about developing a vaccine 40 years into your work on HIV & AIDS Does the development process end the success with the COVID vaccines give us should that give us any new hope for an HIV vaccine? Absolutely, absolutely. And that's a really good question because the technologies that were developed the mRNA technology the success of using very elegant techniques of the conformational correct form

1:02:14 of the immunogen in the right form to engage the immune system, to optimally make a good response. You know it was back and forth Rachel what was done with HIV early on though unsuccessful with a vaccine went the long way to make success for the COVID-19 vaccine. And the technologies that have now been perfected, particularly the mRNA technology and other vaccine platforms that were perfected and used in COVID-19 I believe strongly will go back and be able to really forward and advance the HIV effort In fact there are scientists right now even as we speak

1:02:58 that are using what the COVID-19 effort has inspired us to do, to start working on that for HIV. So it's just science at its best. You know contributions back and forth with the fundamental core of it being, the investment that one makes in basic biomedical research. Which is really the resounding success story... ...of the scientific approach to COVID-19 vaccines and has resulted in already saving millions of lives." Oh! Oh, saving lives? Oh my goodness. Okay, something just struck me

1:03:37 Earlier we heard in the clip that the efficacy of what you and I are presuming is early mRNA technology was 37% and that was... Yes. So if you look at the, now not the absolute, uh, you know, relative- If you look at what they're touting as efficacy You know it started off at 99%, 98%, 97%. Do you know where it is today admittedly? It's around 37 percent This is very interesting. Yes, this is fantastic! This is a find. But also my question is if you've been sitting on this technology and you've been the number one AIDS guy for 40 years and it's clear that you had this breakthrough in 2009 why are we just not hearing about getting around to AIDS vaccine? That should have been the leader

1:04:33 Yeah, I think that I'm just saying like from saving lives aspect. I'm just acting in good faith Oh And we got his thing is killing people and which they still spreading and this has been my life's purpose Is to defeat to defeat this Monster called AIDS why didn't you kick it off to them first? It wasn't ready man Oh, okay. So all of a sudden you just... It wasn't ready! That's like me and I'm gonna give you an analogy that's like You lose your wallet And then I don't say anything and then you ask hey have you seen my wallet? Yeah it's right here yeah I had your whole damn wallet the whole damn time. Yeah that's pretty much it. That's not troubling to people. Shady

1:05:26 Yeah, this whole show is troubling to people Mo. You know what I'm saying? You're just sitting on the answer huh? He's not gonna fork it over to these poor marginalized groups. He was waiting for a bigger market! Come on... The whole world versus a bunch of gays?! Come on!! Well, Imma ask this good to go on the other side, sinister side and remind people that this isn't a COVID show Could it be that your big fear of having multiple gay people falling dead is bad. Say that again? Having multiple people, gay people fall dead from your HIV vaccine Oh you know that would be very bad yes oh okay hold stop I'm with you okay

1:06:14 So here, let's game it out again shall we? Okay. Sure! So... We know that the real moneymaker long term because it won't be necessarily a public health crisis like COVID is things like an AIDS vaccine Why? Because you know everyone who wants to have sex is gonna want to have this vaccine and completely voluntary You don't have to mandate everyone will be like hey man I might as well do it So, what they're doing now is that now they're actually perfecting it with this massive scale and a whole bunch of people where we have the media and politicians and a lot of stakeholders covering up the adverse events. The deaths all this stuff I don't know should say that in distracting while they are literally tweaking this their tweaking the stuff

1:07:10 And it's for longer term goals like AIDS, like cancer etc. So now it makes a lot of sense. I'm sorry? You can't start with... because you can't start with AIDS No no! You're absolutely right because if people die of AIDS you killing gay people you can do that but if is just the whole bunch suckers who don't really hear about and they are wherever just poor people rich people once in awhile we get a celebrity don't worry will cover that up That was a complication from COVID Wasn't the vaccine or anything like that? Well, they learned from the first time of don't mess with yo. But so Fauci... He's 80 now so he probably only got a couple more years So time to get this going with the AIDS stuff too. I just want to point out- No that was really good yeah yep yep

1:07:57 All right, so now we're going back to the Vox segment. Dr Fauci explained three. She was named director of NIAID in 1984 and the then Director of Health and Human Services highlighted Fauci's background in immunology and infectious diseases as a main reason for his appointment. A major effort was directed at determining if a variant of this virus could actually cause depletion of lymphocytes or or acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. And as it turned out, a varying of that virus in fact caused the syndrome." Fauci's leading early research helped define NIAID as the Central NIH Institute for AIDS and he made it a point to be the person communicating key findings to public and media.

1:08:48 AIDS cannot be transmitted by casual contact. But it was a later political test that shows how Fauci navigated the AIDS crisis and secured his career In the summer of 1988, playwright Larry Kramer wrote an open letter to Anthony Fauci calling him an incompetent idiot and a murderer. His opinion was broadly reflective of activists' most notably the organization Kramer inspired The AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power or ACT UP In 1986, Fauci had reinforced his position as the leading scientist for the federal AIDS effort. He created a new division to focus on the disease and earned other significant NIH posts But progress was slow especially for diseases deadly as AIDS where patients died on average 15 months after diagnosis

1:09:44 So this goes to speak to what we were speaking about previously. You can't have the dead bodies in the street And he caught a lot of it called caught a lot of flack from it From Larry Kramer, so yeah a lot of this is coming back now okay? Yeah It's a lot of parallels and one thing he did say, he used the word variant there as well. Yeah remember this is not a COVID show And it's not and uh... He said 19- that was 1984 I think he was making that speech That they segmented. Uh..I saw this with address I saw it but didn't clip anything from because its very tedious to follow through

1:10:23 Yeah, he used the word. So is it other HIVs out here? I know there was a like urban legend just go by what we got to talk about this. We're talking to Cy Hop here on not the medicine. Well, never heard of this another good one never heard of an HIV variant. I did you did yes super AIDS Yeah, okay. I recall super aids yeah, but where'd it go? Superman got it and took it away. I don't know It's probably the publications reread but a lot of the like hip-hop and like I said hip hop had a lot to do with AIDS as well and Just for I'm gonna show you how powerful the AIDS

1:11:09 Initiative was the the um first intro song was a song by old dirty bastard. Yep It's called shimmy shimmy y'all and the hook goes ooh, baby I like it raw You were saying they made him change that actually record a PSA Oh really? Yes. Jeez, so that must have been at the height of because I mean the money... 95, 96 Even earlier than that! The money that was being spent on AIDS advocacy was unreal Moe. I remember with someone else's money I bought

1:11:53 Michael Jackson's fedora hat, which I think was like three and a half thousand dollars as some benefit. Which i then gave away of course as some radio promotion but the point was that was just me! There was a lot of money flowing it was crazy And it still is because getting tested is a huge thing. You know your status? Right, I'm just talking about the marketing and Hollywood and that was unparalleled at the time... The concerts Elton John yeah so I guess we can go ahead get to part four of Explained. Fauci and Nyeh were responsible for starting trials for new drugs which the FDA required for approval

1:12:42 In June 1986, NIAID created a network of clinical trial centers around the country though they were criticized as ineffective. Activists argued that the NIH, the FDA and leadership up to President Reagan had failed to take the crisis seriously This photo from an October 1988 protest shows the key complaints. At the time, the FDA's lengthy drug approvals required strict scientific clinical trials. It was textbook science but the disease killed at a faster pace than the FDA's process

1:13:21 If you entered a trial, a certain percentage of patients got the drug and a certain percentage got a placebo. This helped test if the drugs were safe and if they really worked That was important because many AIDS drugs didn't pan out But with AIDS getting a placebo was a death sentence And that meant fewer volunteers for clinical trials. The epidemic needed a radical approach, but experimental approaches like aerosolized pentamidine weren't being approved. The drug helped treat one of the most common infections caused by AIDS yet trials had been delayed by NIAID which Fauci blamed on insufficient staff under pressure he acknowledged the approval problem in 1988

1:14:03 testifying in Congress that he would go for what is available on the street if he were a patient. A blunt rebuke to FDA policy keeping these new approaches out of reach. Oh, that's when we got the buyers clubs! Go-go to what's available on the street huh? Wow... That's what you say. Holy crap Try that now Yeah But um keep it uh anything you'd like to say about that man I mean there was a lot No no No, I'm just letting it flow. Let it flow over me Well this will be in conjunction with the previous clip This is actually...I have Larry Kramer Oh good! And this him getting angry and this at the Connecticut Forum uh..in 1993 The President promised to appoint his most important White House appointments within by the time he was elected He campaigned that the AIDS czar would be one of these

1:15:07 There is no Aid Czar. There is no person that they're even interviewing for an Aid Czar I fear, and I dread to make a prediction but I fear that these next four years as far as Aids are concerned are going to be just as bad as the last eight years twelve years Now I know we're supposed to be nice to him Give them his honeymoon? I haven't got time for a honeymoon. Mary Fisher doesn't have time for a honeymoon, this doctor here from your own city doesn't have time for a honeymoon one billion people don't have time for a honeymoon. I see red light is on out there i guess i've exceeded my six minutes what if I learned in the last 12 years it's the question that has always asked me on interviews

1:16:13 I went to Yale. I was assistant to the president of two major United States corporations, Columbia Pictures and United Artists Corporation. I have made films that have won Academy Awards. I have an Academy Award nomination myself. I am a rich man in monetary terms. In the last 12 years, I have learned what it is like to be treated like a kike, like a nigger, like a spick, like a faggot, like a piece of shit. I have learned that people are not very nice if there is no such thing as the Judeo-Christian tradition and that intentional genocide is allowed. You know what's really remarkable?

1:17:19 is how loud these voices were back in the day. Gay men and they have zero voice now gay men are you know, they're just their outcasts and they led a lot of this yeah, and that's that's the thing there powers gone has just been removed well it's been co-opted of course in their community I mean they're experiencing the same thing yes and every other it's not the it's been co-opted by trans lives matters etc

1:17:59 Well, it's not your preference of sexual preference. It's that you're a masculinity period Yeah, good point Men gotta go Black men got to go white man Gotta Go gay men gotta go men have to go and they nest the whole plan is to marginalize all these other groups because like you said To the point where? You're actually being kicked out of your group I mean we were all We're all experience in this what do you think they want to do with us? We mean, I don't really need one of us per a thousand. Mm-hmm 10,000? I mean, I mean why not just do it like the old Egyptian day Jays You know like like Cleopatra you know she's that we'll be slaves. She was okay to sex slaves Just feed us let's have football but you don't need a lot of them. Yeah, I know To give a parallel they want to make us

1:18:55 Unix in a way unless you have something to offer sexually Attractive me like you always pointed out track the men don't get me too correct Long as you don't have anything that offers actually then your basic unit shut up and just do work and keep your head down Yeah, and that goes for all me That goes for all men That's crazy. You thought he thought he thought you know, uh and what's happening now is He experienced that as a white man then yeah to say oh even white men could be genocide Yeah That was new for him like he heard the words they use this yeah What he was going through with right? Mm-hmm Now it's gay manner experiencing that because they kicked in the LGBT excuse me LGBT LGBTG BT door

1:19:47 And now they're like shut up and sit in the corner. Oh, yeah No this is that man kicked in there still a right door now show them getting corner It's an insult that they're included in the acronym You know they should be no G in the LGBTQ QIA PK plus where their their their their I'm just saying but I'm just gonna insert your point further the same way They say black men are the white men of black people gay men on the straight men of gay people Yeah, I know what you mean. You said it really weird

1:20:27 I know, yeah. That sounds weird when you say that I'm the white person of black people but it's the same thing like now you're the dominant factor inside a group. Well no so... You gotta go! Okay so clearly what we have to do is turn it around since we all know the black man goes first We need to lift the black man up to lead the return back into our rightful place What you restore a masculine led society and that's not lead in the sense of, oh you know like oppression. That's in you know fatherly that's why the patriarch is so under attack because it's about leadership right well exactly but you know what right now I only see black men standing up and saying this you Jason Whitlock recently on I think he saw him on Tucker doing this

1:21:22 Um, well when you're back against the wall see a lot of these other groups think there's negotiation. We realize they're negotiating and there is no negotiating right? I mean what are... There's not like we've we're at the bottom Like, next thing this is gonna lead us great into another clip. What he felt what he thought he can negotiate like he was talking about Clinton He was like we got to be nice to him give his honeymoon period there's no honeymoon period right? There's the way we knew how I was gonna happen after the 2020 election We were ready we had batten hatches you see what i'm saying like we knew what was gonna happen

1:21:59 So when you say we, is there a phone call that I should be on from time to time? No it's the psychological... Well I think the thing like formation right. It can happen both ways. When you get your mind around an idea and when you look at left or right it's like You're gonna see it everywhere where you need too Yeah so I want to get into the point of benign neglect And thats what Larry Kramer was experiencing And this is Dr. Frances Cress Welsing and she's going to explain what benign neglect is. What racism, white supremacy is the effect of racism because the more the victims of racism and white supremacy are kept in a state of ignorance

1:22:48 then that enhances the strength of the system itself. And every effort is made to block black people penetrating and having an in-depth understanding of racism, white supremacy. It's my understanding that the Attorney General Eric Holder in commenting upon the Supreme Court Chief Justice said that the Chief Justices said the way to deal with racism is to not talk about it. You see, that would be the same in medicine. The way to deal with cancer is to not talk about it and so then the patient and everybody else who might be afflicted with cancer they just go forward in dying because its being ignored or being given benign neglect I think that was President Reagan's term about how to deal with racism

1:23:50 So that's what you alluded to about Jason Whitlock and what we do here at the show. You've heard it from several other people, that we realize shutting up is what they want us to do! Yeah...that's an end. No no no! We're going out kicking screaming if we're gonna go out... Spitting in the mic all the way Moe, all the way So, uh let's see now okay. Now we got to go back because this is a throwback clip from show 44 That was big bank big Big Bang Barry about Barack Obama And this is Reverend Wright and it's something that we didn't catch in there I'm not gonna say it. I want you listen. Okay the context of what we're talking about now

1:24:34 and the United States of America government when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations when it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly she failed. She put them in internment prison camps When it came to treating the citizens of African descent fairly America failed Put them in chains, the government put them on slave quarters. Put them on auction blocks. Put them in cotton fields. Put them in inferior schools. Put them in substandard housing. Put them in scientific experiments. Put them in the lowest paying jobs. Put them outside of equal protection

1:25:21 the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them drugs, builds bigger prisons passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God bless America? No no not god bless america! God damn America that's in in the Bible for killing innocent people. Goddamn America, for treating her citizens as less than human! Goddamn America as long she tries to act like she is god and she is supreme!" Man that was so assassinated in the media

1:26:04 Yes, oh my goodness But Obama was embarrassed by it himself well there's a he first of all being associate with Somebody that speaks like that with that tone the tone itself. Yeah, you know he played He played the I'm nice and I'm not, I'm non-threatening. And I'll just know, I'll be quiet. You heard Dr. Francis Crust Wilson allude to Eric Holder one of his picks of just don't talk about it you know? Just don't talk about it unless it was bad for the messaging yeah so they had to condemn him well one of the things Jeremiah Wright was known about

1:26:47 preaching about AIDS and where it came from. In your sermon you said the government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color, so I ask you do you honestly believe your statement and those words? Have you read Horowitz's book Emerging Viruses AIDS & Ebola whoever wrote that question have you read Medical Apartheid you've read it? No questions from the floor. I read different things as i said to my members, if you haven't read things and you can't... based on this Tuskegee experiment and based on what has happened to Africans in this country, I believe our government is capable of doing anything! In fact,

1:27:37 One of the responses to what Saddam Hussein had in terms of biological warfare was a non-question because all we had to do was check the sales records. We sold him those biological weapons that he was using against his own people, so any time a government can put together biological warfare to kill people and then get angry when those people use what we sold them... Yes I believe we are capable That's the part you didn't hear about. I recalled, I recalled the clip but no for all intents and purposes no one heard that Did you hear him engage Tuskegee? Yeah of course! That's what i'm talking about here The floor pushed back like hey it was like there was an uproar he's like okay I need to get them off me yeah Tuskegee right uh we call that uh We have a term benign neglect

1:28:39 We just didn't end but that's a reflexive thing like get off off me. Yeah, of course Of course give me time to think about an answer Let me jam this out at you and I was a great example of of what I've been saying about how Tuskegee's viewed and when we talk about the underline, about Northchester doctors period as far as you know are the solutions they have. Tuskegee is also it's also great because um because yeah as you point out it's like this yeah get off my back let me think about some more here so I'll just throw out Tuskegee Tuskegee is long, it's hard to say. It's interesting you don't really hear it You have to make sure you don't say Tuskegee Airmen So it's like a really good one because I think its relatively short but gives you double the punch on how much more time you got to figure out what your going to say next Yes and that was just wanted to lay that out But he lays out some heavy names there Horowitz and other people but before we do that We gotta

1:29:37 show appreciation to the people that make this possible. Yes, and let us explain how we do it! First the white man and the black man have to be able to sit down at the same table The white man has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of that Negro And the so-called Negro has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of the white men Then they can bring the issues under their rug out on top of the table and take a intelligent approach to get problems solved That's the only way they'll ever do it Words to live by and I think everyone who produces the show with us agrees, and that is a great way to live. And everyone's doing it we like the notes that you're sending with your support with your donations and we need to thank our executive producers and associate executive producers for episode 69 We're well on schedule so thank you all for supporting us regularly

1:30:27 It's value for value. All the work that goes in, the coordination, the planning, the growth that we have coming and some security for everybody is incredibly welcomed and you can do that by helping us with your time, your talent, your treasure and everyone seems to be contributing beautifully. Let's start off with our top executive producer, we have a name for that. Paula! Shotcaller 20-inch blades on the Impala This is Peter McCool who comes in with $333.33 Man magic numbers love it and says please dedebate me

1:31:09 Congratulations, you're no longer a deadbeat. And also be wanting some more karma thank you sorry I'm very late to the party joining you guys in episode number 60 well you can always go back Quickly the MoFax podcast turned into one of my favorites dropping in my podcast 2.0 app Yes, we're taking over the world question before you go to the first donation segment and you play the clip of Malcolm X It's always weirded me out when he says this so-called Negro I'm sure I'm missing something So if you guys have any info on that, I'd be stoked keep up the great work mo

1:31:46 Well, I can think...I think i can take that. It's the same as the so-called black man. It's just it says there is no descriptor. It also has like this so called white man, I guess or the so called yellow man And it's another component that you, that's right. But it's another component of that is we didn't identify these terms so yeah It's like you this is how you address me So a so-called but in how Malcolm says and I'll say it We don't have a self identified identity yet. It's forming but yet Yeah, so we could say hotel

1:32:24 I'm just throwing shit out. Yeah, yeah But that's this effort like we're seeing is happening. That's why it says yet now use the word yet because yes Yeah, I like that. It's still being formed. The identity is still being formed. Rightly so Peter McCall here's your Mo Karma as requested thank you very much. You've got... Mo Karma? Wesley Olson comes in $150 and let's see Big Bank Barry he says and Black Ink part two question mark Hmm, maybe Maybe I mean anything's possible. Yeah sure anything's possible but we appreciate the Suggestion for sure now we have something here from Greg because on last week couldn't have his email he recent it um and along with this sketch

1:33:17 So if you want to read either one of those messages, it's up to you. It's dealer choice. Just resubmitted the make do sketch note and felt like it would be a good idea to offer another donation Thank You! Your older shows are keeping me sane or as I... Or as close as I can get to it in this circus wallet we're all in right now I'm consistently impressed with the quality of each and every podcast you guys put out. It's interesting hearing you talk about things that have gone down in the last several years, and consistently find you both articulating many of the thoughts I've held on various topics covered, and have gained more understanding in regard to things I didn't know or understand at the time! Thank you both! Stay sane!" Thank YOU! Believe it or not, it works for me too...I think Mo probably has a say? A nice sketch too.

1:34:01 Then we go to Color Command Creative Studio, $105 for an executive producer. Credit Love the Show was introduced to you both last year by a previous university teacher I love that. Yeah, yeah we're helping university teachers. I hope he's not previous cause he's introduced you know this was about a few months after deciding to start my own show oh the shift makers podcast i use my millennial perspective along with a marketing and advertising background to get my generation thinking for themselves I'm always giving shout outs to your show because the more ears, the better. Very grateful for the peace of mind both of you provide. Mo is a fantastic follow on the socials and NA should win awards! Adam will also be giving value there soon. Mo Karma for the show please from Elle The Shiftmaker. Yeah definitely I'm gonna check it out. Shiftmakers podcast.

1:35:01 It's just an empty promise if I don't write it down. Hold on... Shit maker, shift makers! No that's not what i meant there we go The Shift Makers podcast. $88 from Kirk James, hey Moe and Adam this is in celebration for what would have been my dad's 88th birthday this past weekend I would like to donate on his behalf he was a very generous man born during the Great Depression I learned a lot from him and he was the person that taught me that man is only worth his word I believe he would have loved y'all's podcast. Please keep up the excellent work and a biscuit for my dad and a WUSA shout out from my Dame Amber, followed by Mo Karma for the family absolutely man thank you very much nice note. They always give me a biscuit on my birthday. Oh I love this name Theodora Dorinda Odnina i think

1:36:02 $75.93 and just says thank you, and we say thank you Theodora! Then we have $75 from Anonymous Now we have show donations... Ah yes Did you mention this by any chance on Lost Tapes? We gotta get in the habit of that Which one? Well so now we have the show donations, we got 69's coming up And of course, we could've anticipated Show 69 being a big hit This is the Dvorak part of the value for value model that I've never really done, is to remind people they got a cool number coming up. Okay! Because people love it. People love doing this so and we start off with Nicholas Woolward now these will all be in addition to

1:36:52 associate executive producers also show donation producer show number producers so you get a separate credit for that and we said 6969 from Nicholas Woolward can I stop you for a minute just to go back to the anonymous we know who you are you know who you are but i didn't see email from you. I saw others, but if you want to see it again okay? So do I need to take any action No, no. I just want to put that out there. Could have given me a negative value but obviously they sent an email but it didn't come through. Happens all the time. Resend and we'll get it eventually So here's Nick The Kiwi. Nick The Kiwi donation $69.69 US dollars no jingles no karma had to donate for this amazing show number yeah what your thoughts on the relationship between Dr. Sebi, Nick Cannon & Nipsey Hussle?

1:37:43 We can talk about a second did Nick Cannon get cancelled from his remarks on his podcast about the Jewish community? Was it really a ploy to keep from the was it really a ploy from the elites to stop him releasing that dr. Sebi doc documentary Especially right before the start of the worldwide planned Emmett keep up the great work love from the Democratic Republic of Danish Stan It's Victoria in Melbourne we may never see these people alive again down there and he's new it's a new bill that he's ramming through so this is actually our first, we first knew about each other I guess kind of around the Nipsey Hussle time right and Dr. Sebi

1:38:26 It was there was like something completely different from what we were focusing on his documentary. Do you can you refresh my memory? Oh, well Dr. Sebi says he can heal all things through your saying is with diet. That's right Yeah Including AIDS so it's crazy that this letter comes with this So I might have to look into that for the lost tapes So good one. Yeah, yeah that'll be a good perfect one for last tips. Yep. All right Thanks. Thanks Nick the Kiwi Curtis Collins, thanks gent great gents. Great quality as always keep it going whoo-sah pour favour much love from Kurt and Jen Thank you very much. Where's my regular? Bowl after bowl the bowl after bowl podcast another podcasting 2.0 value for value podcasts 69 shows out of insight perspective and humanization

1:39:24 We couldn't be more grateful for all you two bring to the cookout. Hopefully Adam can bust out the Bill and Ted 6969 dudes jingle for old times sake, Love is Lit Sir Spencer and Dame DeLorean of Bowl after bowl." So this was probably the longest running donation No agenda number donation was the 6969 because and it went on for years And we said whenever a show does not have a 6969 Donation then we retire the whole segment where you retire the jingle I think it's in four or five years, but this is what it was no wait That's not the one who was

1:40:08 Sorry, this is what it was Very childish Make sure we get Josiah as well. Oh I'm sorry Yes Who says GBG? Of course give blacks guns Thank you very much Josiah John Taylor is starting a new job. He wants starting a new job karma Have people actually requested Job Karmas on MoFax before? I don't know, but you might want to hook them up. Yeah this is my favorite called the TPP Jobe's. Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! You've got... MoKarma There it is. Chris Bailey also well Chris Bailey has 69 but we'll count that as a show number donation no note further

1:41:00 John Knowles had to donate the show number of course you did thank you let's see I had to be swazzling off a show club member dh slam of the God was 69 yes Swazilov is yet what is that if that was Because I'm sure it was someone who mispronunciation from some somewhere but in French 69 is swassel nuff and somehow that became swasselnough. So that's someone who goes back a long time thank you DH, slamming to God Jordan Brown 69 no nope we appreciate it Thomas Fisher says thank you for having one of the best podcasts out there curse you for sending me down too many rabbit holes with the subjects you cover

1:41:44 I must apologize, i've been a deadbeat for too long. I humbly request a de-deadbeating! Congratulations... You're no longer A DEADBEAT! I also couldn't miss the opportunity to be a show number producer for Show 69 and even has a nice little adolescent... Nice Keep up the good work and he wants John to turn his speakers down. Okay, thank you Thomas Paul Arsenault also show number donation Sir Candanavian from Jasper Alberta for your continuing my re-education from propaganda university sociology lessons yes

1:42:26 Dude, I think you get a much better education here. Appreciate the support. BooBury66$ says... What a stunning production! Truly inspirational not only in how a team can approach a format but the stellar quality of conversation There's not many places you'd find someone not only willing but capable of humanizing the FBI or lizard people Fingers are still crossed that it's physical lizard people. What a champ That short for champion shows like these make great make the great unzipping See pro-choice wars versus anti choice a fun place to be Enjoy every sandwich and lovers lit boo burry Mothman of the mini mini opera men mini opa cop a mini apocalypse Got it many apocalypse

1:43:17 Yeah, so it's Minneapolis but mini apocalypse. There we go. Oh my god What is this by o3 DJ DG PS? Thanks for a great time the other night Moe John joined us Oh on behind the schemes before episode Series 1 episode 66 Soylent Green New Deal it was a hit oh I didn't know you were on that. Oh man cool I'm making appearances. Yeah, yeah where's the broccoli? I was gonna say bad radio dot live there you go. Yeah right We're never gonna see you Moe. I think you actually that DJ with the marshmallow on here on his head I think you and him are they've never seen anyone more

1:44:02 more possible to be MoFax. All right we're gonna stop here, we'll be thanking the rest of our producers in a moment but thanks again for our executive producers associate executive producers and also our show donation number producers this is very important value we need to grow this we need to grow the MoFax Enterprises Incorporated I think that we have enough people who have this time and talent, and also the treasure that we can really grow this. And i think they were on a good track here We got a good schedule every 14 days but really every Wednesday with the lost tapes. Yeah let's remind people because

1:44:39 Want to remind people because you're missing out on the facts family and that's in the live chat they have their own conversations going and it is great to see that everybody show up and like know each other speak to each other so And that's definitely... Please join us over there. Yeah, definitely and get to know each other now because you know if there may be another place you want to go hang out together it's easy if you already know each other from before That's true So go to MoFacts.com to find out more or if you want to donate You can find the Donate button there Or go to mofundme.com M-O-E F-U-N D-M-E dot com and you can always try a new podcast app If you're not already using one that has a boost button

1:45:22 then hit it now because that is how you can stream value for value, little bits of Bitcoin in the future. Uninterruptible money. You can find a podcast to try out and use it at newpodcastapps.com and thanks again for being executive producers and associate executive producer of episode number 69. Swizzle off! All right so... In the previous clip, Reverend Jeremiah Wright brought up a name Dr Leonard Horowitz Have you ever heard him before? I think so, but it's like such a doctor name if you know what i mean So well this go ahead and get into this is the origins of AIDS any bolder viruses

1:46:09 Let me just share with you quickly how I got started. You would never imagine this, in 1982 when I was finishing up my Harvard Masters of Public Health and I was asked would I like to participate in educating gay folks and others about this thing called Gay-Related Immune Deficiency? This was before it was called AIDS. And I said, nah, I don't want to deal with that disease at all. I don't want to think about that at all Here I am 15 years later 16 years later and what am i doing traveling around the world telling people about the man-made origins of AIDS and Ebola

1:46:47 I was working over here my favorite area of Research and teaching wasn't self-care healthy human development motivational psychology teaching people like Danny does how to take better care of themselves boost their immune systems So I was really into that. I love that's my favorite thing and one day Kind of like the miracle happened where there was a crisis and I was the right person at the right time. It was 1990, July 27th, 1990 when the case of the Florida dental AIDS tragedy hit the press. You remember the case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with the AIDS virus? Oh man do i remember that! Do you remember it from then?

1:47:30 I remember it, just being on the news with my dad and watching the news but i don't recall it like that. But I remember it being a big thing like oh dentists are giving people AIDS you know that kind of thing. You want to go talk about it? No no no! I'm just remarking that I vividly recall that Okay well have a local clip from that. Perfect From the local news, Dr. Acker's case is bringing national attention to our area tonight and to the increasing fears over how the AIDS virus has spread nowhere has the impact of AIDS been so tragic than here in our area where a young woman is the first in the country to claim she contracted the deadly disease from a medical caregiver

1:48:13 The implications for you and for the health community are enormous. In the first of my three-part Action News Extra on AIDS anxiety, you can meet a young woman who is bravely forging ahead despite the odds. We're all gonna die, you know we're all none of us are immortal With AIDS you more aware of it. She's a 22 year old college graduate with a promising future until December 1989 when Kimberly Bergalis found out she was diagnosed with AIDS Suddenly fate changed the future It's frightening You know I was

1:48:57 I was at a point in my life where I had all these different goals and I was sending out my resume, and I was thinking about you know, marriage and eventually children. So it's a big setback. Kimberly believes she contracted the deadly disease during a 1987 tooth extraction Her dentist David Acker of Stewart died of AIDS this past September I thought about everything else and nothing else made sense The only person that I've been exposed to that had AIDS was the dentist I remember dr. Leonard Horowitz because i read one of his books and it was and I looked It up while we were listening emerging viruses AIDS and Ebola yes now, I remember yes it's been a lot

1:49:43 Okay, so I don't know if you want to get into the The acres or not before this next clip. You got anything you want to say about them something? You remember you wanna no No, should I be we did you expect something from me? Yeah, I did I mean Oh if you familiar with his book because it's right up your alley in these next couple clips 23 at that time I was serving as the world leading Dental and medical catalog supply companies chief professional advisor. And my background was in media, health education, health promotion. Fear because I worked on dental phobia reduction therapy programs behavioral therapy programs to allay people's fear Going to dentist and I've been a dentist for 16 years and health education and media persuasion technologies and here the media was making so many people afraid to go see their dentists in the wake of this case So I was asked

1:50:39 I was told, I was given the job opportunity to develop patient educational literature to help allay people's fear of going into dental medical practices. So I started the research. The Centers for Disease Control's official investigation reports on a case... ...I first found them to be scientifically questionable. I then found them to be scientifically bogus and later found them to be fraudulent! They'd literally covered up, deleted the most incriminating evidence against the dentist who I had to conclude after three years of studying this case and publishing three scientific reports literally having to go out of the United States, to publish because the American Dental Association, American Medical Association wanted to maintain a cover-up. Yeah... So it's been 30 years since I really honestly well a little bit less than of course but that's when I was earnestly when these books were coming out when i was really studying this stuff uh... and wasn't until

1:51:35 Another 10 years after that that you know I really think started to become clear, and it's been for me. It's been total benign ignorance So let's just catch people up on what he saying in the previous two clips so what he's saying is He had no interest in looking at AIDS which was called gay Yeah, instead of autoimmune deficiency... immunodeficiency disease it was called gay immunodeficiency disease. No, it was greed! It sounded like gay to me. No what's that supposed to mean? The acronym was greed So great, first of all great rebranding on that because greed would not have flown over very well at all. No good at all Second of all what he's saying is he was chasing the money They were losing money because people didn't want to go to dentist Because they were afraid which brings up another point how

1:52:29 I don't know how people can let somebody go look in their mouth and say, in the middle of this thing we got going on but this is not a COVID show. And it didn't stop what he's saying as him started chasing the money and figuring out how to get people to start going to the dentist again He started looking into his case with Acres. And he found out that the dentistry industry and the FDA Covered up everything to the point where he had to go out of the country to publish his book So I just want to feel people understand this because we look two clips or segment with the local report so I wanted To fill people in on what's going on at time. He didn't purposely pursue AIDS No, you was not a hunter. He was trying to get people into dentist offices Correct which I mean it comes is all natural apprehensions in its first place. Um and

1:53:25 But I digress so we can go now. We can go in this thing is where you're gonna be very interested 24. And I wrote a book that was based on those three scientific reports called Deadly Innocence, my ninth book where and i have to conclude that the dentist based on all the evidence using the FBI's own behavioral science literature how they themselves investigate and evaluate these types of cases this dentist scientifically trained military dentists for much of his career very intelligent dentist believed that he was dying of a virus that the government had created. They covered that up He believed they had intentionally injected this virus during 1978 experimental hepatitis B vaccine That was given to a lover of his, who he had in 1985 and how it got infected And he believed this was genocide

1:54:24 And he believed in what was called the World Health Organization Theory of AIDS. The videotape that Danny stated he saw, the Strecker Memorandum was what Dr David Aker believed that the World Health Organization and United States Public Health Service Centers for Disease Control had something to do with development of these types of viruses and deployment through Hepatitis B and other vaccines in Africa and North America Oh man, you are opening up a deep rabbit hole that was pretty dusty. I had that one closed a long time brother, long time ago and like oh man he's taking me back to the Strecker memorandum. Nothing like a revisited rabbit hole! So... Damn you, damn you Molfax!

1:55:15 But since we're re earth this rabbit hole is going to jump in a striker memorandum Do we need to set it up about what it was or that? Well, let's just give a little setup This is his guy that makes the case. Dr. Robert Stricker he makes this case which it was six parts I found on YouTube. I'd secured it on you too Yes For whatever that means would get a content strike. I'm sure and No, what I'm saying is our security. I downloaded the actual video For archives you see in the title it said disappeared yeah But he makes the case that AIDS was created in a lab and

1:55:59 Well, not create it was what AIDS was created in lab and it got out somehow He didn't say if it was intentional or if it was by accident But he just makes the case that AIDS was created a lab and you know what I'm glad this is not a kovat show. Yeah, I'm glad to aids The most devastating biological catastrophe the world has ever known This disease will kill more people this year than all other viral diseases combined. According to Dr Robert Strecker, AIDS is a man-made genetically engineered virus that was either accidentally or deliberately introduced into the world's population. AIDS is not a homosexual disease. AIDS is not a venereal disease. AIDS did not originate from the green monkey. AIDS is not prevented by the use of condoms

1:56:50 and AIDS is not likely to ever be cured by a vaccine. I realize what you've just heard contradicts most of what you've been told about AIDS In this program, Dr Robert Strecker will present documented evidence that refutes the official stand taken by so-called AIDS experts members other research community and the government And now let's find out the truth about AIDS. Yeah, now we're cooking with gas So okay so we got to back up a little bit and go back to what dr Horowitz is saying He said he found out about this scenario of the acres the Dennis Acres

1:57:33 was giving people intentionally AIDS because his lover had gotten AIDS through a hepatitis vaccine. And out of anger, he started to infect people and this memorandum supports what Akers believed so I'm just filling everybody in where it's little disjointed but I want to make sure everybody is caught up to speed on where we're at with this. All right, so we're going to get into part two of the Stryker. I'm Dr Robert Strucker a practicing internist and gastroenterologist in Los Angeles. I have a special interest in pharmacology pathology and now AIDS. I became interested in the AIDS question several years ago and doing a health maintenance proposal basically an insurance proposal for Security Pacific Bank a bank here in California

1:58:31 More and more members of the medical and research community, such as Dr. Peter Dewsburg at University of California Berkeley, Dr. John Seal a member of the Royal Society of Medicine in London Dr. Alan Cantwell, who has recently finished a third book on AIDS- this one on the origin of AIDS are questioning the validity of the popular view about AIDS which has failed to scientifically explain the disease So I've decided it's time that someone tells you the truth about AIDS so in this program i will show you how the AIDS virus was actually predicted requested produced deployed and now threatens the very existence of mankind because it works

1:59:12 To understand why I believe that the AIDS virus came out of a laboratory rather than out of the jungles of Africa, you have to understand several important concepts which i will address in the next few minutes. These concepts actually include an understanding of viruses bacteria human cell lines tissue culture and manipulation of all those things in the laboratory It was really cool about this repeat or rinse, rinse-repeat cycle that if this were a COVID show. What's really cool about it... Which is not! No of course not So in hearing all of this now we need to go back and let's remember what Reverend Wright said About Goddamn America giving people A's He's going off these peoples facts

2:00:07 And now we got to bring it back into why I was a psyop. It was the role that psyops plays on so-called black Americans because we were hearing this in rap songs, we were hearing this in church, we're hearing this in barbershop talk... Now I know what I was going to say and it leads you into this point So we have, you know this grainy YouTube video which has been disappeared multiple times as pretty much one of the last pieces of evidence. You can go out and you can read the Stryker report but nothing quite as powerful seeing him at the blackboard explaining what's going on

2:00:50 What is happening today with, you know... Now we have all of these different avenues. All of this media all of these things, like even Reverend Wright. There's only really one or two little pieces so you know while the cycle is rinsing repeating we have become so much more communicative amongst ourselves and have figuring stuff out over here and I think that's the fundamental flaw of what...I'm gonna jump to the end of course I totally believe that this is all the same thing Mmm, I just stuffed that away into a deep dark closet until you opened the door. Thank you very much Right because the door had closed on your side. That's right

2:01:31 But not for you. Exactly. And my side is thing is still brewing it's like, hold on a still Still killing people I mean like you heard The guy came out 14 years later and say he had AIDS mm-hmm Bobby Porter I think got his name Billy Porter Billy Porter Yeah You hear him come out this thing is still fresh and It's unresolved And I want to say one thing because why people like well who is Reverend Wright? Reverend Wright was is a healthcare professional in the military that cared for I think Lyndon Baines Johnson. Yeah People don't know they don't know that he's not just some I mean when you hear reverend They might think Rev. Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, right no we're talking about somebody at work for the government That um had allegiance to the governor like all reverends do and

2:02:28 Eventually, but I'm just saying he was loyal enough to care for our American president. They actually have pictures of them together so this is not some kind of fly-by-night goddess throwing around these allegations So I just want to make that clear But this is where his teachings are coming from but the psyop is how now it's like Oh no, age is a square deal. And we've seen this I brought this up before but not to belabor the point but we saw this with OJ it was very clear when OJ was found innocent A lot of black people

2:03:11 Either thought he was innocent or went along with it. He was innocent You know you didn't question it like sure Right, so it was the same thing with AIDS It's like no AIDS man-made you don't think government gave us aid I think even Kanye has a line that alludes to that um Oh all the greats have slipped it in Yeah, all of them. So I'm just saying... But but but iIm sorry to come back to that Go ahead It's been in hip-hop That is the main point here Is now it's open to everybody It's not necessarily just hip hop Hip hop didn't have the distribution has today But it was definitely CNN One of the most popular songs In R&B hip-hop history Waterfalls The first verse about an aged patient Aged patient

2:03:59 Little Precious. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So...I mean we're talking about so tens of millions of albums that's like one- I mean how many Grammys is that song won? I mean it's how ingrained it was in the culture um so when you hear somebody with uh the reach and uh you know the respectability of a Reverend Wrights preaching that in his church You can see how this thing got set in, but now we can go back. Thank God Archive has saved these tapes and uploaded these tapes so we can revisit them if you look backwards you could oftentimes see the future with that said

2:04:41 Uh, where we at? 27. Yes we are. In essence I have to conclude that the end of that case the dentist most plausibly was identical to an organized serial killer. He may contain a classic organized serial killer personality you know like the Unabomber these people they all according FBI kill for sake power control and revenge! Revenge being the major theme And the principal issue, his principal vendetta was screaming loud and clear in the legal testimonies that it was against the federal government. In essence I concluded that he created a crime. He did what all organized serial killers love to do they manipulate the authorities at the Catch-22's The Unabomber, he publishes this manifesto in The New York Times, why is he supposed... says here's what I believe you try to get me!

2:05:28 David Acker, the Florida dentist was virtually identical to this. In essence he created a crime, a mystery that could not be solved without implicating the government because if they told the truth... If they said he was an organized serial killer then the whole world would want no motive and the motive was screaming loud and clear in their legal testimony which they buried So there is one document however that came along with that videotape called The Strecker Memorandum that Strecker sent to David Acker And it was the most horrifying document I had ever seen. It was a 1970 Department of Defense appropriations request for $10 million dollars, for a five-year study to develop immune system ravaging microorganisms for germ warfare." Oh man what does that sound like? Happy this is not a COVID show! Gain Of Function Research anybody?! He...

2:06:28 Was a equivalent to the serial, I mean to the Unabomber. To say i'm gonna do some killings that way if you investigate it You gotta investigate the whole story. Right Which one's just some crazy guy in Florida or allegedly is some crazy guy in Florida was him As he was painting a new and to be in the interest of parties And that whole news segment that I played I lived. I just clipped it But I mean, it was like a three-part series his name was never mentioned like that He was never a part of the story ha who we was nothing It was just like yeah this get his Dennis

2:07:07 And then he just kind of gossed over it. I mean this guy was a military dentist, he was involved in his community big time golfed guy down in Florida. You know pillar the community and then he just goes on this quiet rampage of infecting patients and nobody asked why? Damn man! By the way, I put the Waterfall lyrics into the show notes not everybody might have known that about the about the lyrics Yeah, that's the first verse is about age pace. He's patient Mm-hmm So now we got to go back and listen to Fauci, and this is Dr. Fauci This is the blurb dr. Fauci director of National Institute of allergies infections infectious disease at the National Institute of Health NIH talks about the prospect of bioterrorism And the safety ethics of publishing potentially dangerous scientific information in the interconnected world so this is um

2:08:09 He's speaking to the senator for strategic and international studies, and he is talking about anthrax. Bioterrorism... there is always a potential for bioterrorism And we have major bio-defense research and development effort that spans agencies from the NIH to do the basic research to be able to develop better vaccines, how you counter engineered microbes, how you approach drug resistance engineered microbes. The CDC has surveillance mechanisms to determine if there's new microbes or

2:08:45 anything out there in society, particularly toxic that could be used in a bioterrorist situation. The Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense we do all that having said that the worst bio terrorist is nature itself nature is very good at evolving microbes to create problems much smarter than any terrorist. So what we've tried to do over the years is to use the expertise, a front or attack on us with a microbe of any type, engineered or what have you to use that knowledge to better prepare us for what we know will happen. We don't know whether we will ever have an attack on us in the United States or elsewhere using biological weapons. We absolutely know

2:09:44 that we will have the evolution of a new disease naturally occurring, that will impact society. And the reason is because history has told us that it will happen. Yeah, I just despise that this guy is even talking about bioterrorism. He should not be a part of this but he is But what he's saying is we gotta stay out in front of nature which is the justification for... Of course! Because nature's gonna kill us Well let's create what nature can create before nature and that goes back to his original clip that says we have to be better than nature

2:10:27 Let's be better than nature. How do you do that by creating what it will create before it creates? It so we can come up with the resolution and and that is trying to humanize Fauci here And this in this point, oh I have a very hard time. I have a very hard time Well, no What I'm saying is if he's saying maybe acting in good faith We're trying to beat nature to the punch so we know how to counter it. That could be a way of humanizing him, but it's irresponsible. It is very irresponsible but like I said, the road to hell is paved in good intentions. I'm sorry he's part of the 1%. He's a lizard!

2:11:12 Well, maybe that's why he feels comfortable around working around these things. Exactly! He's like I won't catch it with a mask. I'm going in the lab and you're saying nothing on watch me hold my beer So, let's get into the part two of what could probably go wrong with bioterrorism. I can't predict to you when the next one will be hopefully it won't be for a very very long time but it will happen there is no doubt that it will happen so instead of looking at in 2 separate silos of bio-defense for biological threats that are deliberate and countermeasures for naturally occurring we should essentially pool the science so that you could do both

2:11:55 Well, I think that where we are right now in science and molecular biology and particularly molecular virology and our ability to sequence and recombine and create various organisms in some respect, is that the best way to prevent a nefarious act is... To create it. ...to develop a culture of responsibility among scientists? You have to have some restrictions in the sense of you don't do work that could actually

2:12:34 hurt people in the sense of if you have a laboratory accident, you have to have the right containment. Once you start being too restrictive, then impede creativity for so many good things that can come out at the same type work. So if you develop a culture responsibility the vast, vast majority of work on that area will be done for the betterment of mankind. There are always going to be bad guys around somewhere someplace you would hope that they don't have the opportunity to do something that is gonna ultimately hurt mankind

2:13:16 When I say that, I get back to what i mentioned just a moment ago. That the chances of nature creating something really bad is much better than we mere mortal humans doing it. Wow! In short the only way to stop a bad guy with a virus... Is a good guy with a virus. Ha ha ha! Ahhhh wow that's a mind bender That's how he looked that's why and the reason why I try to humanize anybody One give everybody if we benefited adults you have is that proof? Oh, but other thing is if we're trying to reach people that may believe He's acting in good faith. You have to communicate on their level Mm-hmm and say hey look he understand he might was trying to get out from nature I get it But that didn't stop the fact did they created AIDS and escaped

2:14:14 You see what I'm saying? Like, two things can be true that we always talk about. So if we want to reach these people... Oh yeah both can be true oh absolutely! Right so but if we want to reach those people that were trying to communicate with and not get siloed We have to see it the way they see it seek first to understand then to be understood Okay I could see how you could see that he was acting in good faith That still doesn't absolve him from the fact That when you start playing around and playing God basically what your doing it can have significant ramifications. Or, if you and I think that this is probably the case with Bill Gates and Fauci likely there's a new book out which i've been reading by The Briggins I think its Peter & Ginger Briggins called COVID-19 And Global Predators We Are The Prey

2:15:08 And you can totally humanize Fauci because he's hung up on... He is not necessarily the person who wants to kill everybody. I mean, he could be a lizard! I'm not ruling that out. No but he could be the lizard that... There are different kinds of lizards too. I am sure they got a hierarchy But my point is this could be so big This could be a... it's what I've always felt, this is a trail that just leads to all these things and you know we're not really gonna do anything with Zika or with Ebola but i totally am so on board with this pathway. It's repeating the whole thing repeats

2:15:52 We're gonna see even more repeating but first we got to continue to thank the producers that allow us to have these conversations People out there who need my services people out there who are weak People like that who were tired We the people out there who just need a hill. Y'all got cash? Well then come on down! I love this one. Take your cash down, hey why don't you... This is we want to thank our the rest of our producers of course for producing episode number 69 A great way to do this

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2:21:35 And remember it's not just the bi-weekly podcast, but also The Lost Tapes and go to mofax.com to find out everything you need to know Follow us on the socials and for direct support go to MoFundMe.com Thanks again Alright so now we gotta get into how they tried to handle the disinformation with their normal tactic. And it's working again now. That is the tale told by Operation Infection, Russian disinformation from Cold War to Kanye. A riveting three-part series released by The New York Times' Adam Westbrook and Adam Ellick

2:22:36 who joins me in the studio now. Adam, great to see you thanks for being here. Thanks for having me So there's a lot of talk about Russian disinformation Of course in 2016 even 2018 But this started long before as your film demonstrates and I want to show a clip from the film that starts with two KGB defectors who said disinformation had one goal to change the perception of reality of every American, to such an extent that despite all the abundance of information No one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country. Within the KGB is a department that specializes in planting false stories and forged documents... We know it was run from Department A right at the top of the KGB and had a multi-million dollar budget.

2:23:33 People who in the Soviet Union and outside of the Soviet Union are involved in that kind of actions on regular and daily basis. 15,000 people creating disinformation stories as seemingly crazy as The US Created AIDS. Okay Russians got it. Yeah Russians. Of course! Even with AIDS it was the Russians man those guys are so good Can I interest you is a little bit of operation infection? I'd love some operation infection. You can answer with a K by the way, okay Okay

2:24:13 Okay, so to start let's go back to July 1983 and all the way over here New Delhi India This is when a remarkable story appears in a newspaper called The Patriot It claims the HIV virus was secretly created by US government scientists as a weapon kill African-Americans and gay people. It even names a facility Fort Detrick in Maryland where the virus was supposed to have been concocted. It's a crazy allegation printed in a small newspaper, no big deal right? But fast forward just a couple of years and look what is happening! The story is spreading all over Africa

2:24:54 A scientific report is even published by two East German biologists who say they can prove AIDS is made in the USA. All these articles are from just a few months at the end of 1986 and then somehow it ends up here A Soviet military publication claims the virus that causes AIDS leaked from a US Army laboratory conducting experiments in biological warfare. That's Dan Rather reading a fake news story to millions of unresting Americans on national TV, but don't be too hard on Dan this was one of the greatest cons ever carried out on a global scale and we're going to show you how it was pulled off Just before we continue I just want to confirm something you said earlier

2:25:41 that if anyone with any so-called black person or the majority of so called black people, if they're being honest when asked you know without microphones or cameras AIDS. They would say oh yeah everyone knows that was created a lab to kill black people. Well there were some issues going on I don't know if it will go to extent But they would say, eh. It looks that way and they might not be as adamant as you hear but even a non-conspiratorial person that watches the news every day this comes on Dan Rather my dad watched Dan Rather every night

2:26:24 right after the local news and write books for Willa Fortune. You know what I'm saying? So if he hears that... What is wrong with you black people, the communists are continuously giving you false information! That's how it seems right?! What is wrong with you!? But hold on let's look at it another way though Maybe the Soviets recognize a weakness that they can exploit exploit. It's not that the weakness doesn't, the fissure doesn't exist and they're manufacturing it is that they realize that is a fissure there like what we talked about back in with the communism coming through in the south with how sharecropping was going on well at that and of course fast forward to Marxism and BLM

2:27:06 I mean, it's a lot in between. If you watch the show The Americans... They had our storyline in there where the Russians was working with revolutionary black Americans back in the early 80s late 70s So this is a running theme Like I said that doesn't say that the fissure doesn't exist and they're manufacturing It could be that they just realized that's a weak point. Right? So, I'm gonna so Dan Rather he's pushing this story good old Dan KGB let the story go quiet for a couple of years after India but with AIDS still making scary headlines in 85 They revived it this time in a prominent Moscow newspaper and the source for this story You guessed it

2:27:59 It's brilliant really, they've repeated the story but concealed their hand distancing themselves from the lie they started. So we're now into 1986 and the KGB want to add gravitas to this lie. They look around for a scientist, a human face someone who could back up the lie with data and no joke this is the dude they found! This is Dr Jacob Segal remember I said The Report had two authors? Well here comes the co-author now it's his wife Lily Believe it or not, these two wrote that report that claimed to have evidence AIDS was created in a US government lab. This scientific gobbledygook and you know you read this stuff and who can understand it but it purports to be proof

2:28:42 But the thing is, it worked. The KGB made sure the Seagal report was read by journalists all over Africa and they kept on pushing it until it went... well viral! It appeared in 200 reports in 80 countries even the Daily Express in London runs with it And finally on March 30th 1987 The KGB hits the jackpot A Soviet military publication claims that the virus causes AIDS leaked But you brought up a great point last year that I mean last show about the amplification of news and it's kind of like what we're doing now is when we just deconstructed It's kind of like the same thing that they're using there right? They put in but in reverse. Oh, yeah Little paper mm-hmm And it works its way out to the mainstream Now and reverse we've reversed engineered it That when it comes from the mainstream

2:29:41 We reverse engineer and it disseminates out through smaller outlets like ours. Well also, we are able to use collective memory and that collective memory is YouTube That collective memory is for better or worse Google but you know there's a lot of infrastructure A LOT of infrastructure A lot of data being created that we're now starting to learn how to find and not necessarily have to go through all the, you know, all the beaten paths that have been laid out before us. So yeah... And they're in a catch-22 because they can't sanitize their platforms because then I'll create a competitor so it's like let's cover it with all this asinine mind numbing material It's better to do that! It's better just throw everything out

2:30:31 and call everything a conspiracy, confuse everybody because that's the hard part. I know there are people who are going to email me and say you are crazy Curry And here is what they'll say age doesn't exist? Curry really? That's what they're gonna say not that i said verbatim that way but yeah...I have big doubts about all of this And I'm not saying that because something's killing like the same approach that I took with COVID. Something is killing these people, you see what I mean? We had that happen before but somethings killing them now is it purported as they're saying? Well what- Somethings killing people Yes Yeah In Okay I am not a doctor so this is only my opinion but if you look at truly what AIDS is

2:31:19 Autoimmunodeficiency syndrome. But this can be caused by many, many things! Right, you just knock everything in. I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I completely understand what you're saying. But really what's killing people Mo? What is really killing people is sugary drinks, crap food processed food, bullcrap life no sunlight unhappiness SSRIs Adderall heroin Oxy it's amazing so many people are still living they haven't been able to kill us with this damnit give them a virus And it's like, well the sexual path doesn't work. We gotta go respiratory we got to go airborne. Yes! You can't even get them like... all they do is they're like bunnies. They can't stop them with this? They won't stop. So it's clear what their goal is. Yeah kill us. To kill us.

2:32:12 I'm glad we agree. 99% gotta go, which leaves 1% of kids his age. Of lizards! It's amazing how that math works out. Y'all do the math yourself. Will we stop at 33? Yeah no, we're already 35 last one... Okay well let's finish up this set. This campaign had a KGB codename they called it Operation Infection Well, I'm sorry something happened with that clip it went garbly gloop and then oh no, so what happened on your end? No. No, yeah, it sounded good here

2:33:02 Okay, my fault. Yeah no worries. No worries we'll hit it again this campaign had a KGB codename they called it operation infection Well That's a life, half-a lifetime ago. This was handed out at a demonstration I was so angry that they accused the United States of creating the AIDS virus because i knew how effective that was going to be as a tool against us and it angered me

2:33:48 Operation Infection, one of the most audacious and successful fake news stories ever created. And for America the impact was toxic. Foreign governments actually believed that the US was creating this biological warfare agent For them to think that damages their view of the United States, not only as a culture but it taints all of our policies. It's in the backs of their minds every time they discuss anything with us." Now with so much at stake you might be wondering what the US response to all this was? Well we're watching it!

2:34:29 Kathleen and Todd were both part of something called the Active Measures Working Group. Nicknamed Truth Squads, it was a team that tracked and tried to expose Soviet disinformation. Aye aye aye aye aye True squads! That's-that's the genesis of fact checkers. That's right...Truth Squad Oh man...That's good. And I- That's good And as she said, when you're dealing with people it's gonna be stuck in the back of their head. So now you see what I was saying at the top of the show When you come to me and talk about medical and trust this and trust that It's like hey What about AIDS? There was... You know I saw this Okay I'm just scrolling through something here for a second Someone sent me a link Ummm

2:35:29 that was... here we go. Oh, this is gonna trip you out! Okay, this is good. We're doing it live everybody! This is a response from the InSyct group then there was a report written in August 2021 to refute The report examines a newly discovered campaign aimed at discrediting the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID 19 vaccine And so this was commissioned by, of course Pfizer to go out and it's a professional report. But the true title of this report is Operation Secondary Infection with a K Targets Pfizer Vaccine October 2020-2021. Secondary infection? Secondary infection with a k operation secondary infection target... Holy crap!

2:36:34 Do you realize how big this is? Because the original Operation Infection was the cover, I'll just call it what it is. The cover for the AIDS debacle and now they're using Operation Second Infection with a K. Oh my goodness! And then you have this piece come out from The New York Times Wow to refresh you on what the first operation infection was so when the second one hits You already been seated. That was a rare no agenda Mo Fax flow over if I ever saw it that was great It's in the show notes of people and go take a look at it for themselves

2:37:31 I didn't but always try to make the point if you look backwards, you can see the future We they do it first. I hope people understand that and it's what this does is it? Caught this is where distrust in systematic racism and all his stuff comes in It it's not one person and one thing is This psyop yeah that we're blanketed with And it's like we don't forget We do not forget now some people go into formation Yes, yeah. Yeah the mass formation to get along go alone and get along no They're they're not immune to the mind control But if you live this You knew every time before a sexual encounter AIDS popped into your head yep

2:38:26 Now, you know every single time you breathe or you see a person without a mask. It's all BAM in your head! It's like asking somebody to have sex without a condom... Are you crazy? Sex without a condom which if you think about it condoms depopulation hello I mean hello how many babies were not born due to condom wearers So win-win if you don't use the condoms and die of AIDS If you use a condom there are no babies yay yeah So now that's going international psyop. I have to bring people to the domestic psyop Okay, and their original super spreader so we're gonna start here We gotta go back to a clip

2:39:06 Well, this is not a clip. This is a piece I pulled a clip from but this is another segment of it and this is in search of good pussy by Don Spears Oprah Winfrey and All these women have different programs to help enable black females But who's trying to help black males? And I mean right now there are 6.6 million people in jail Most of those people are black male. Nobody is really doing anything for them. The Essence Music Festival was in New Orleans the 4th of July weekend

2:39:43 Tom Joiner said it looked like 60 women for every one man. I was there, that's what it looked like and it was insane to see that many women and no men so where were the men? There was a clear signal being sent because men are like a shark with blood in the water if they're women there then the men are going to be there but for some reason the women were there but the men were not And even the uh...women who were They pulled out their money, or credit cards. Bought what they wanted, smiled with their girlfriends and went on about their business I know of neighborhoods now where you have most of the people who own houses on a block are black females No men They have their own houses Their own credit cards Their own BMW's

2:40:36 The only thing that he a man for sex and many of them have boy toys They can pick up the phone do it. Terry McMillan, you know Get a groove back on and then send him about his way And there's still no connection No, I'm with you. Let me this is not news to me because of our work together but yeah lay it on me Stella got her groove back So that was about a woman going out to Jamaica and she gets with a boy toy, a young boy toy and they fall happy in love. Well that was based off of Terry McMillian's real life but in it how it plays out? It comes to find out who she got her groove back with happens to be a gay man and that birthed the term down low brother which was the original super spreader

2:41:34 That's me doing a sound effect. So how this plays out... Stop! White man catching up slow so on the down low is a derivative of all that? Yes Little do they know Down low and explain for people down low is that's a heterosexual. No, it's the gay man or bisexual man living undercover dating women and little to her knowledge that he's gay which that's how You explain the numbers of gay men being high for AIDS black women being high for AIDS But not the heterosexual man

2:42:22 What it did was it caused a major, which we haven't conquered yet. And was that download boy? Is that what you said? Download boy? Download brother! Oh download brother sorry. Undercover brothers. Didn't mean to bring the boy word in. So that uh... Was the term super spreader actually used in connection with with a download brother? Right because that's how it jumped From the homosexual community and to the heterosexual community. Wow, you following me? I'm with you of course so it's so I mean i'm just making me It was a hard right So I want to make sure everybody else is falling along too so they did this ruse I think Of her going through this humiliation ritual with her being terry millen mcmillan on oprah show

2:43:12 They bring this clearly gay man, which I say that loosely. You know what i'm saying? Because you can have effeminate men which are heterosexual but... A made for TV gay man Right! They bring him out here she goes through his humiliation ritual and what it does is start to embed this belief That see cuz if you're openly gay, you're not a problem. He's no saying so that ruled out offending game in This was an attack on all black men No, not all black man because if your gay you're good Because your eyes know I mean if you're out But if you're not out then you're automatically considered to be a possible super spreader. You're super spreading. Oh That's evil which till this day is

2:43:58 You hear people say, oh he's an undercover brother. Oh he- because that's kind of the worst of both worlds? Because one you're not living in your truth and then you're bringing over the high potential because I said at in some southern states uh across America one out of every two gay men have HIV AIDS. And I'm lumping those together but for sake of saying it you know so yeah that's how it jumped this that's their explanation for the jump From this gay community to the black woman community got so now we're gonna get it said 37 and watch this Ruse play out when I honored 25 Remarkable women who paved the way for me in countless others at my legends ball back in 2005. I asked Terry to be there because she too is a young legend, I've looked up to her as a mentor sister friend and

2:44:56 respected her work and we continue to respect her work. And I was really surprised that she was in this situation actually Did you feel obviously betrayed? Yes, yeah it is betrayal Yeah and deception Yeah yes Do you feel like you missed signs that were there Um, no because I'd never been betrayed this way before. Mm-hmm. I've never been with a man that I knew was cheating period and thinking Was he cheating cuz he told you yes? He was cheating You think he's gonna tell the truth? I don't know they lie about that But you said that he said at the time that he had never acted on it mm-hmm but you didn't believe that obviously Okay, I said okay That's like saying you're an alcoholic And you haven't had a drink uh-huh

2:45:48 What does he do? He had an epiphany in his sleep. Yeah Now this is the thing about this show, this is the thing I've known Terry McMillan through her work and her art and her Talent and her books And I was surprised that she number one wanted to come on TV and talk about this You were surprised, huh? Yeah. Oh yeah Wow Gee and just for people that don't may not know Stella got her groove back She also pinned waiting to exhale which is a mean factory The car the light the woman lighting a cigarette and setting the car on fire walking away this action to all our memories This is the author of that book which it also has a

2:46:41 has a character in there that, I forget her name. She always plays everybody's mama in black movies but she is married to a gay man but she had a child by a gay man and he goes off and leaves her with our adult son. So I'm just saying this is... And there's Oprah again you know? Oprah bringing it to the masses I told you it's domestic rollout. How that was international PsyArt roll out? This is the domestic roll out here, the original super spreader so let's go and get into 38. Okay Jonathan come on out let us meet you. I was even more surprised that Jonathan wanted to come on TV and talk about it

2:47:29 This is your chance to say to the world were you lying to Terry about your sexuality all those six years No, I wasn't lying about my sexuality. You were not lying I wasn't so when first of all it's pretty apparent to me and I think a lot of other people when they see Jonathan that you know something else was going on there and But I think that somewhere inside herself, if she were absolutely honest... She knew something was off. Even if she couldn't say that he's gay, she knew something wasn't right because as we're going to speak about in future lessons here

2:48:16 You always get that little feeling. I call it a whisper, and the whisper is exactly that. It feels like something's off and then you allow yourself to tell yourself that it's something else or that isn't what you actually really think it is. You don't use your own instinct, your own intuition, and allow yourself to be put in a position that you later have to suffer the consequences And then get angry. This goes back to prove your point which you were saying before Imagine her saying that about a white gay person or lesbian like oh, you know they look like they're a gay You know something about them Something's not right something something's off Oh imagine her saying that about anybody else Mm-hmm rather than black man

2:49:12 It would be a scandal, I mean a scandal. But for a black man? Oh yeah he looked like he was gay! You could tell it's the whisperer. Yeah, like I said it's played out in the early to mid 90s and This down low is accepted into the vernacular Oh massively. It's it's it's Incredibly interesting. I do know millennial Like yeah millennial women 25 26 who really hang out with a lot of gay guys too

2:49:49 Because they don't like the masculinity. See that's how far it's gone now because they don't like masculinities I Don't like it and I think down low bro, I think is It still a real thing and it's just like say is it's the first attack mechanism of Anybody you know or your gay are your gay? He's gay. Yeah, it's a fascinating phenomenon That somebody can call a black man gay as an attack, but also say they stand to defend a black man's sexuality. We're going to address that in another show or online. But it is weird that at the same time that could be an attack! To say that and then with the same time you said you stand with the LGBT community? Isn't that crazy?!

2:50:43 It is very crazy. Let's go and continue on the reason why I said it's the ruse You were here in next two clips listen to part one Okay Now there's another part of this story that my producers told me now while they were at your house Terry the other day a huge bouquet of flowers arrived That's what I was told by the producer who was there, and they were from Jonathan mm-hmm correct who had spent the night Correct he had stayed over, but he didn't spend the night. He's gay Okay nothing happened basically nothing happened, but I heard there was some cuddling and bathing That's what I heard well you want to know what what we have a really big bathtub mm-hmm

2:51:34 I was on my side and she was on her side. The thing is that Jonathan has seen me with my clothes off for 10 years Yeah, okay? And I know he doesn't have a tub where he is yeah It was sort of like closure it's not like we're kindling what we lost where it's never going to happen again Mm-hmm. There was just kinda closure as you said closure Are you all now? Friends yeah I don't want to be like flying. Yeah, we're getting there but yeah exactly it's gonna be weird It's not gonna be weird is we're just taking our time you know what taking your time to do well To kind of like... The thing is, what? To kinda like what? To kinda like reacquaint ourselves with my new lifestyle and you know for her accepting me for who I am basically. And that was laughter back then too interesting Right! Oh sorry, it's Kiki! Now they're kikking it up Like when he say he's gay Could you imagine the audience going off in laughter when somebody said they were gay?

2:52:36 But at the same time, she knew what he was but it was a boy toy. As Don Spears laid out it's like hey I'll pay you you can go out and do your thing kind of thing as long as you take care of me is called sexual survivor we talked about this a long time ago and it goes both ways you have heterosexual men to participate in homosexual activities to survive and then you have homosexual men that participate in heterosexual activities to survive Yeah, so that's what I could say but this is something about Oprah that have always thought was off Something's not right. Something's not right about her

2:53:31 But you got to break her off in pieces like cuz she's hard storm is on the pulse Yeah, right. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The A's rollout Magic Johnson which we didn't talk about here another whole nother part of it And but that's why they need the download brother because they couldn't say see magic didn't bring it home the cookie rights So they had to have an explanation of how it was jumping the barrier if everybody's straight. What was the explanation again for Magic? No, well she got lucky basically

2:54:15 But they stay married wish it yeah, I can say that's all you don't get me another show another show. Yeah, I got you Oh another show so um let's go ahead and wrap it up with Jeremy Millen and uh her ex-husband I've already accepted you for who you are Jonathan on a different level? Yeah, but we're not gonna be kicking it. I don't want to kick it with you. I don't. Don't take it. I'm not taking the wrong way, I'm not. Okay but you seem frustrated are you? The thing is... I'm telling my side and she's just frustrated the way I'm bringing telling everybody mine It's a two-way thing you know that's what I'm saying she always dominated in conversations with us

2:54:55 Right Do you feel that you were just with you were repressing your Homosexuality I was mm-hmm. Were you living a lie? We're getting a lie But you know why and I let me just say that stink before you answer this question, right? Because there are a lot of young boys out there and girls who are watching you and they're in who need the truth Who need just the truth and every time somebody tells the truth You free other people to also be truthful. And so there's no reason at this point to pretend anything So the fact that you're sitting here and the fact that you all now or on their way to Whatever it is y'all on your way to

2:55:35 You know, at least for every other gay guy out there who's repressing his feelings and you know at least honor who you are now. Honor that! I am honored Terry give me credit. I'm here on TV. Thank you. I'm honoring my lifestyle Okay It's not hard letting everybody know about your sexuality especially being gay. I live the lifestyle of a heterosexual with her. I loved her unconditionally up until the point Of years, I mean two years before it ended. Thank you. Super spreader? I mean, no. Download Brother? That's the equivalent to super spreader that's how that virus got into the heterosexual woman black woman pool now it's not exclusively to black but this is... Right so he's patient zero of the crossover Yes Wow

2:56:48 And they're men, like I said. But it's only heterosexual men because if you're openly gay... A whole other problem? No problem! It's no problem! There gotta be a problem cause on the hierarchy they outrank black women. Heterosexual black women. So, and the final clip is remember Oprah says there's whispers. There's always something. Something's off. A lot of women have close friends very few have friends as close as yours. Describe that friendship to me. Okay She is the mother I never had she is a sister

2:57:51 everybody would want. She is the friend that everybody deserves, I don't know a better person. I don't know a better person. Why is it making you cry? Shoot! Wasn't gonna cry here... It's making me cry because I'm thinking about how much uh..I probably have never told her that Tissue please, I now need tissue. I've never told her that. So when those to me dumb rumors come up then you are gay? What do you say? Well I have said we are not gay enough times. I'm not lesbian, I'm not even kinda lesbian and the reason why it irritates me is because it means somebody must think I am lying

2:58:56 That's number one. Number two, why would you want to hide it? That that is that is not the way I run my life Where would she be on the hierarchy if she was lesbian as she came out Oh, well, I don't know the gold is long after was okay to come out She will be Oh, she would be over a gay man. Because she has two checks. You know what I'm saying? Being a woman and being gay... Yes of course! And black with three checks Three checks is it's a rare triple? The only thing that top her is they may be a trans black man Or if Oprah decided to become a man

2:59:41 Oh, if she did that on me. She'd be at the pinnacle of... To put the cherry on all this and bring the circle full close Reverend Wright's church allegedly was also set up to pair off people that were interested in same sex with opposite sex. Oh really? Yes That's why Obama was allegedly going to that church. Right! Oh man, you mean Barry? Just to bring... excuse me, Barry. Barry-o. So I just bring that full circle but that's my... this is not a COVID show It's not but it's also it's not a show this show doesn't really end here now does it? No it doesn't. It cannot end here because there's so much that you've uncovered. I really appreciate the helping me understand how

3:00:40 how AIDS still, the PSYOP still lives in the minds and of course how that affects everything that's happening right now and how pathetic all these efforts are. That you know the media efforts to try and remove vaccine hesitancy this is not hesitancy this is a baked-in like valid fear And recent, like you said with Tuskegee that was decades ago. Right. I mean... Stella got her groove back everybody knows that's pretty recent you know? Right so this is something i lived through i didn't live through Tuskegee right uh i didn't live through Henrietta Lacks i lived through this

3:01:22 My peers lived through this so just want to say that so Mo. Thank you for this one This is this I'm real proud of this work, man This isn't this is good. This is really something that goes far beyond anything I could have imagined be achieving in this podcast People will want to listen to this they'll want to share because it's kind of the trifecta and it sets you up for understanding a lot Of the forces in this world and the lizard people and illicit people. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself. And we will be back with you on The Lost Tapes Wednesday. Moe will there for that of course go to moefacts.com and episode number 70 coming up in the next show Have a good one Moe thank you so much man Alright see ya next time Adam See y'all soon All of your ladies out there

3:02:16 Turn up your radio Girls, I'm about to tell you something You may wanna know You know things They're not always what they appear to be And I don't want to happen again What happened to me? Listen, there are no words that can describe what i felt inside When I found out the man loved another guy We were at a party

3:03:09 ♪ I wanna have a little fun ♪ But when I looked around, my man was missing. I walked outside and couldn't believe my eyes! He was in Bill's arms breathing hard and French kissing. Susan, Helen and Jane When all the time it was real That was sleeping with my man

3:03:55 Bill has been to my house a thousand times He and my man would go camping and fishing Oh, I tell you it never crossed my mind Bill was a friend And he was daughter To my only son Now it looks like Billy wants to be a stepmom. See, I was ready for the berry.

3:04:32 I was ready for Jane How do a woman compete With a man For another man? I asked my man Why didn't you tell me That you were gay When you knew You knew what built My world around him And here's what he had to say I knew I had those feelings and I didn't want it to be See, I thought about being with you Girl, I thought it would change me Tears came to my eyes He says I'm sorry