39: Hard Pass

00:02 Mo Facts with Adam Curry for June 2nd, 2020. This is episode number 39! A new month but the crazy has just increased How you doing Mo? I'm doing good Adam how about yourself Well i'm okay You know...I'll be honest with ya It's a little unsettling not so much as to what's happening but why it's happening and we're talking of course about this day the second of June 2020 We've got I don't know if it's happening tonight, but we've had a couple of days of weird demonstrations slash riots all over the country. All over the country? All over the world?! Yeah, all over the world! It was mind-boggling to see thousands of people on The Dam in Amsterdam... And they're protesting racism in America

00:57 It's fantastic to watch what is happening and I'm so glad that we get to talk because man, this has just been a weird one. How about you? What are you feeling? I am fine but dealing with the people...I was in a situation where had to deal with people without normally don't have to do it on a daily basis and that being family yeah and is shocking how indoctrinated they have, they are by the media and it's a large part of reason why we do this show. Yeah. But I was just surprised! It was a family gathering and actually i was drained from channeling their emotional unrest yeah well that's probably very...I have that too because you know

01:57 I look at this stuff and you know, I see so much of the obvious but there's a lot of power in the machine that are really pushing this all one way. And there is a lot of groups that are participating in this and taking advantage of it. And this is not something that even the Mo Facts show with Adam Curry cannot address everything that's happening, its not a one for one at one and done I mean this is kind of the culmination where the show has been going for well four months now Is right and it's really the topics have gone right along with the current events It's just insane to see how it all flowed together Right, and I had a lot of people contact me in like past shows like oh that is so relevant now One being white privilege the other one being white fragility. Yeah The white fragility is definitely one which was what was that episode?

02:58 24. 24, something like that? Yeah there's a lot of good- 13 and 24 are the most things...the two I've been contacted the most this week about And also um..I would say white supremacy is uh now that was one of the earlier ones we did a whole white supremacy overview didn't we Yes! I think that was 13 it mean that what that was white privilege and white supremacy all that was wrapped rolled up in one show but yeah We're not going to get into the blow by blow of what's going on at the moment, but that show topic for today. I think we can look at it through the lens of what's going on right now. All right well let's crank up the wheel and see what is going in our fabulous wheel of topics where it stops nobody knows but of course no one really does know and lets see today's topic will be... Passing She was passing for white

03:59 Passing, yes. Well can I just...I don't know if this is where you want to start but just from my own experience when Minneapolis started and when the riots started and I looked at what the news media was calling black protesters I'm like, yeah but i know what a Somali looks like and you can tell. You know maybe a little bit off, maybe a country over but hold on a second what's going on here? And it didn't take long just to look at

04:36 you know, just a couple of searches to find out the huge Somali population but gangs and all kinds of stuff is going on in Minneapolis. I know it's been there but it never really popped to the front of national news. It sure did now though. And I'm seeing a lot of things in this whole protest thing about who's in the protests or slash riots depends on what time it is. Right? But they're It's labeled as the black protest. Right? Everything is black, black and on this show I've tried to warn people of how they lump everything into Black even to the point where they'll be talking about the Black unrest or you know the Black people are upset and they'll show their screen

05:35 And it's mostly white people or non, what we classify as black in America. We call ADOS here that's what they're trying to like this hodgepodge put it all together into and we're going to take the blame for it. That's the bottom line when this is all over said and done, we're going to take the blame for it like we deal with Corona, like we did with everything else but today show Conversation we had I believe on 37. Okay, it was a one of our longest back and forth where we didn't quite see eye to eye and what I want to do is get into the genesis of that conversation And then we can go from there just through this show and honestly, I don't know what this conversations really gonna Go I have clips

06:32 I don't really have a storyline per se. I just want to really cover what passing is, what black is, what's not black? Why people want to be black and we can take it from there." Yeah if I can just share uh... A personal thing where you know this went down on Thursday or whatever it was and I sent you a text And I said dude, this is Somalis. What the hell's going on and your reply was really for me tone-setting and quite telling I think you literally said yeah now You know why it's messed up to be called black because just get lumped in one of many hosta reasons Yeah, but no yeah mom say you're right because anything with brown skin or

07:26 black and then it's not necessary a qualifier as well. Well certainly not in context of what, and I always have to remind myself okay here's what people are seeing here's what they've been told here's what they believe in And so no doubt that when the media is talking about black, African-American etc. I think they specifically mean ADOS because of Black Lives Matter and the 400 year virus and all the different memes I've seen bandied about right now So that's what they mean but that's not always what you're seeing or what it is Of course not

08:14 Truth be told, in New York there's a very small ADOS population as well. Oh yeah! Which has been the epicenter of the protests slash riots not just talking about Minneapolis so you got to factor that in as well but I guess you want to get into the clip that spurred this spirited back and forth between me and you. Okay, and this was from The Karen Hunter Show? Yes. Reparations What does reparations look like, Nicole Hannah-Jones? Is it going to happen or is it... Those are two different questions. This what I'll say. The question of what reparations looks like is not that challenging. Reparations looks like a cash payment to those who can trace ancestry. Sandy Darity whom you interviewed for your piece is the chief economist and thinker on this.

09:12 can trace a descendant back to American slavery, you qualify for reparations and you have improved that prior ten years prior to the discussion of reparation bill. You actually lived as a black person Yeah, I was wondering like what did we talk about for so long? Yeah it was the 10-year rule that's right yeah. That was very interesting and i don't know if we really disagreed...I think you got me to a place where I was like okay not disagree but I enjoyed the conversation so much I was like this should be a broader show or full conversation let's say that

09:53 and we got interrupted by Joe Biden. That's right, that's so right. So it slid back one week but I didn't want to lose the fervor from the conversation because i don't think it should have been limited just to 10 minutes this topic is so broad because who is black? When do you stop becoming black uh and I think it lends to now why are black people treated the way they are? And I always use this so-called, or quote unquote. And then I want to be clear. I'm not distancing myself from my lineage and that's the real rub. I'm distancing myself from a title that somebody else created for my lineage. That's the problem. That's the problem I have with it is like what is my past let me decide what my past is

10:50 and how I'd identify. But no, as you seem as you pointed out the riots like we're going to merge in. We're gonna merge everybody into this one group. We've seen this with people of color a.k.a. colored people. People right? Sorry, I missed my miss my cue. I gotta work on that has been a while but yeah that's what they're doing so what I want to do is really go down at rabbit hole to seeing where a person separates themselves from a lineage and what is the reasoning for that? Okay. But before we get into that, I want to get into African American or Black and what's the right term Since we've been here in America We've had all these different names for ourselves either thrust upon us or once we chose from colored to Negro to Afro-American to black to African American

11:49 You know, there's the problematic words of Spanish and Portuguese colonialism and their slave trade. So the blacks were called negroes in both languages so they were just called blacks. And so we used the word Negro. If you think colored people that's smacks of the 40s. Black power means the saving grace of our United States the late 50s, early 60s civil rights activists on the more radical end were starting to say we are not colored people. We're not Negroes. We are black. They wanted it go all the way in that same way thing was not white so they really planted a really strong flag for the Black Power movement and the Black Panthers, the Black Arts Movement and the song.

12:35 Jesse Jackson proclaimed one day in the late 80s, we are now going to call ourselves African American. And a lot of people just said who were they to decide what we're gonna call ourselves? And it felt at first like a step backwards because black really was a big catch all but also so powerful. Yeah, powerful because we went through this because black is not always a positive color No, negative power. True but the reason that they chose black is that's the furthest thing you can get from being white and it was seen as a move of power and that's where black power came from in like I said in the late 60s It really cropped up now had to say this before on the show I asked my mom like and I even asked her this weekend so sorry again like mom

13:33 When did you start becoming black? Because as he stated, a lot of the names were forced upon us. So black was the first one we really chose for ourself but Black is nothing but Negro in English. Wasn't that Jesse Jackson who chose that? No, he chose African-American. That was when we arrived and you know we were gonna be African American now and that smacks of plans to come of mass immigration from Africa so I think that was a preemptive move by whoever he was talking to

14:15 to say we have a lot of Africans coming into the country soon, so let's go to African American. It sure stuck though it became kind of like the politically correct way to say it but... It stuck because it became how the media referred to us but We never stopped calling ourself black But on all the documentation and whenever you filled out anything it started showing up as African-American Oh, and do you recall a time when it was- when it said something else? Yeah. It used to say black of non Hispanic descent Right right right huh I remember this as a kid When we used to take like standardized tests You had to fill in the bubble And then it was like...it was uh Black Of Non Hispanic Descent And then it went to African American So this is why we clung to black and To say that We're A Different People

15:17 Now, is that a lineage? Is that... The problem I have with black is that's the color. And that's an adjective it's not a noun. Right which which is why you liked Ados until that got hijacked. Right because it was straight to the point like what are you Ados American descendant of slave It says where my people are from Not denying their original origin but to say This is where, this is specific to our lineage. And it's quite... The whole point of this show is not about color. It's about lineage and passing is really you're separating yourself from your lineage and that's why I was so triggered and other people are so triggered by it. Is the denial of your blood. Right

16:12 That is very, very disrespectful. Right right right which is how we came upon the you have to have lived at least 10 years as a black person otherwise it's just so crazy you know? It's crazy that that would happen but we have so many examples of blacks passing and taking advantage of it and I guess that's where the rub comes in It's a big rub. Um, and we're gonna go we want to get into all of that But I want to go to show me a clip from not last show but uh Show 38 and this is dr. Jose Pimenta Pi Mineta Bay he speaks on black ethnicity in African American This individual is calling himself white We're gonna react

17:07 and call ourselves black because we're the opposite. Not really understanding that we're not exactly taking a step in the right direction, because now as I like to say given all the linguistic and cultural baggage of black you are trying to push an elephant uphill on roller skates You're trying to turn a negative into a positive Something just hit me as i'm listening to this Why is it called? Black lives matter and not African American lives matter, but oh just like you said is this global That's why you see across the world people saying black lives matter mm-hmm as Dr. Bay said

18:08 You're, we're being re reactive. And as how we ended last show with the uh, the seven habits of how they affect people, the first habit is being proactive. So us being black is okay. White is defined like this is white. This is exclusive which why it's nothing to be honest with you and that definition of a how white is used its pure That's right, yes, but everything else is unpure and now it's like what level of impurity I mean What's your level of contamination? Right. Right, right So that's the problem I have with the term black and it's not just me because there is a groundswell

18:59 of different quote-unquote black people trying to find their lineage, whether it be the Moors or the Hebrew Israelites or you know Pan Africanists. All these groups are trying to find a lineage not a color so it's not just me I don't think black is broad enough to capture who we really are No absolutely also Mean, you know, you know my personal views. How about American that kind of works for me? It's like how about American male yeah that would work for me right but it's just continuous identification which You know I get I get it I can't really feel it But I fucking ain't get it how annoying that is and let me speak to that point right quick And that's the that was the pushback against ados. It's like hot do you want to be American? Why are you going to be America? It's like

20:00 From the claim to say that 400 years of our ancestors labor helped build this country. I think we have a vested interest Yeah, you know in this country But what we have to do is remove the impedance That we receive from actually truly being an American and where does that impedance come from our skin color? Right but it's at the impede that the impedances others rejecting that or impeding that right if It's real and not, I mean some of it is mentally on our part. And then other things that we've seen how it played out in that video you know of the cop killing him and that black man That's real! Yeah no he really died that for sure Right so when you see that it triggers a lot of people but what you have to say is if you can't let somebody else define who you are

21:07 That's the problem. We have to define ourselves and we get a lot of pushback from internal and external people like you said. I just want to say one thing, and one day maybe that'll be something to look at but the cop, the white cop also got defiant now he was defined by his action But this is now burned into it the way this was visual. The visual itself will have long, long lasting psychological effects Can I tell you what that visual means to me? I want to share that with you. What I witnessed there

22:00 Two things. One, does anybody realize he cap and neck kneeled on that man's neck? Yeah And now it's a trending thing to do It's like the same movement or position is being interpreted two totally different ways considering how you look at it Right Yes Obviously I've seen that It's either very sophisticated, but it's very confusing how that works. Go ahead I'm sorry didn't mean to interrupt No no no! I'm glad you put that in there Two...I saw as a quote-unquote black man so called black man was a white man on top of his big game You know when we see the one where guys kill lions or rhinoceros? That's what I saw and that goes back

23:10 Us being viewed as animals for so many years. Yeah, subhuman super triggering this That's it super triggering yeah right so that these are subconscious things that are going on but we have to get back to Why not why white? Why black what makes you white what makes you black This is a I had a lot of throwback clips for this show because we touched on this subject So many times, it's surprising. So when I start digging back through the archive It's like wow! Like that and that you know... It comes back a lot huh? Yeah right And this one is from show nine and this is One Drought Rule with Dr. Yaba Bley and Don Lemon

24:00 In the years following the abolition of slavery, some Americans feared a rise in interracial relationships. So states began passing laws to make sure that any child with a Negro and a white parent could be considered black and denied the rights of white people. In other words, a child with even one drop of Negro blood would be classified as Negro. This became known as The One Drop Rule, a standard ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1967. This and the hardships of racism also caused African-Americans to pass pretend they were white without ever telling their families, leaving a lot of whites not knowing they had black blood. But some experts on race relations say the legacy of the one-drop rule still exists in today's culture." Yeah I remember this. Yes so there you have it if you have I think 132nd? If your 132nd black... You're black! How does that work? So that goes back to the purity

24:58 It's like, as long as you're pure, you can be white. Well that changed over time because they started grafting in other ethnic groups into white. And I think the rise of the DNA test showed that no one is really pure In fact a lot people were delighted to find out they had all kinds of different DNA recoursing through their veins That's true, but I would love to see and just this is a plant devil advocate here. I will love to see they say what was 132nd? What's that math? Roughly like 3% I think yeah, just do my head Say if you have more than 4% black blood in you you have the class by yourself as black

25:46 Then we'll start to see how much people like to embrace their diversity. Well, this was struck down by the Supreme Court for a reason obviously because it... True but I'm just saying A lot of people would be considered as passing so this is way broader If you use the old standard like you said it has been taken down But if we use the old standards Everybody that came back with your DNA test, came back more than 4%, you would be classified as black. I would love to see how- Let's see if those DNA tests are still popular is that what you're saying? Exactly! Or... I gotta tell ya, I believe a lot of people because this is where we've come to it It's very interesting and y'know I talk to a lot of young people in their 20s

26:46 I think a lot of them would be, oh yeah. I think that they would be very cool with it if it truly was the 4% rule and you had to classify There's something going on in the psyche that is very...I can't even classify It's the binary thing. So now, the other binary is white is evil and everything else not white is good. Yeah it's that binary and it flips! And you're so right and they can flip for people multiple times in an hour I think

27:24 Because they're so confused. In fact, that is the problem here We are we are Confused and then you shock some things in the system and you get some people breaking stuff Some shocking images this is a very very confusing time and it's it's very unhealthy well obviously physically for unhealthy for a lot of people but mentally this is crazy and what you just said sparked a thought on my brain So what you will have now is a reverse passing movement because people are trying to run away from white as being negative now in perception. So they would say, so I don't have to go through the troubles of being a white person in society. I would pass for something else

28:16 Anything you see, of course anything's possible. I and I certainly believe a lot of the people i'm seeing today would be all in on that But that lends to the mentality of why a black person would go the opposite way in maybe the 20s, 30s and 40s. Right but exactly! The whole idea of the color thing is an anachronism that- The whole idea is old fashioned and dumb but yet it's stronger than ever white black the two opposite each other good bad well that's

28:54 Hegelian dialectic, that's the checkerboard four of the ruling elite. Their symbolism... I mean all this factors in! All the things we've talked about all come together in this man it is really interesting So what is the solution? No race One race one world no borders give up your lineage That's the end game of globalism Yeah, yeah. I mean you nailed it you nailed it right there That's it everybody all be one all melt together no lineage know nothing imagine all the people yep No that is that is the plan unfortunately that never really seems to work out very well? No because we just divide ourselves under different

29:50 No, people always love to divide themselves. I mean you have... You can speak to this better than i can but white people would have ginger and this and that it's like what? So you have these subcultures within cultures themselves But let's wrap up with Dyle Lemon on the one drop part two Explain what the one drop rule is The one-drop rule historically, also known as the rule of hypo dissent was really instituted to protect whiteness. It was a way for the white majority to be able to name and incite who was white So it's one drop which is 1 32nd? 132nd of negro or African blood would make that person negro or African whatever classification they used at the time I hear people say we're in post racial society

30:39 The reality is, in order to get beyond something you have to understand it. Right? And where in your education... Where have you been required to learn about race? They don't teach it No! It's the foundation of this country We have to talk about race we have to talk about racial difference It is just a flat out lie for us to believe that we've moved beyond race Is she saying that race is the foundation of our country Yes Hmm Thoughts. Yeah, fact check false on that is what you may want lady but no no it's not what the foundation is hmm yeah indeed what do we do with these people I can understand where she's coming from well I think don't think she said how can I say this um

31:36 It's you're in the club or you're not and we saw this with Abraham Lincoln on the things We said he talked about it was always this was supposed to be set up as a white nation Yes, so I think that's the point of view. She's trying to make oh That's how I take okay? I can't speak for her but that's how I received it that is Was set up to be inclusive for a one group of people. Right? Even the great emancipator thought that way, so it's like wow! But we're gonna find out you can be grafted in and this by not like I said cut and we got to get away from color. This show is not good this is not about black is not about color if we're going to find that out later on the show but

32:34 The book I referred to when we were having our conversation was Our Kind of People, that spoke about passing in detail. And it was written by Lawrence Otis Graham and before we get into him speaking To qualify that he's, you know to prove that he is qualified to speak on this topic I want to get into his bio. Lawrence Otis Graham is a nationally known attorney and commentator on race politics in class in America A contributing editor at US News & World Report He is the author of 12 other books

33:12 including member of the club and proversity, getting past face value. As well as articles in The New York Times Essence and Glamour A graduate of Princeton Harvard Law School Graham is best known for appearing on the cover of New York Magazine after leaving his Manhattan law firm and going undercover as a busboy at a discriminatory country club in Greenwich Connecticut. He also appeared on the cover for his story Harlem On My Mind In addition to teaching African American studies at Fordham University and American government at Dutchess Community College, Graham has worked at the White House and Ford Foundation. He is active with the Council on Foreign Relations, Council on Economic Priorities, Westchester Holocaust Commission, Urban League, Boy Scouts, Red Cross, NAACP, and Rotary International

34:13 An alumnus of Jack and Jill, the son of a link and a member of the Boulet. Ran is uniquely qualified to write about the black upper class Did that you did just slip that in or is that no? That's just like they're just hey FU Boulet His book goes all into all the groups the jack-and-jill the boulet I mean this is that's fantastic is like the bible Bible of the Boulle or one of them, uh one of the books in The Bible Of The Boule. Uh so you he's highly qualified yeah as you can see to speak of the black elite So I just wanted to share that with everybody Yeah, so you know who you're hearing from when we um talk about Mr Lawrence Otis Graham

35:00 So he's going to get into the origin of the black elite. And also to see some of the distinctions, because a lot of people have looked at my book and they've seen that a lot of the photos are of light complexion black folks and they say well why are all the blacks light complexioned? And historically the black upper class has been like complexion because the group started from slavery when the slave owners divided us on the plantations into the, excuse my French, the field niggers and house niggers. That was the term that was used where they had the dark skinned slaves working in the worst labor and then the light skinned slaves working in the quote unquote prestige slave jobs as the mammies, the cooks, butlers, servants

35:45 And of course those were the ones who were also forced to procreate with the white slave owners, thus creating more light-skinned offspring. Still slaves nevertheless but they were also the ones who got better treatment and better food clothing and ultimately allowed to be educated so it was that caste system that really created the black upper class And I guess the mistake of many members of this group was buying into this whole concept that there was a superiority based upon a lighter complexion. Yeah, yeah it's coming back to me now... How do you move beyond that? That has been in place for hundreds of years and gradually has been shoveled into everybody's heads It is not an easy undoing

36:39 I played this clip to show the intra divide. Oh yeah, oh yeah well we talked about it a lot. So we haven't got the passing yet! We just talk about fair-skinned black people against you know the darker black people so they already had separate themselves out into their own Get to their own class. Yeah, the caste really I mean... yeah yeah. I think it's a better term and we've seen this in South Africa because you have your blacks yep you're colored i'll say that again you're colored. You got color people! People of color. Color people so I have this weird notion that people are color is a level up from black okay

37:37 Then they got colored. They ain't got color, then you have white. No it should be I think is different It's black okay colored people of colored then you get to eventually to white People are coloring color is the same thing that we always joke about so but it's their installing this very subtle For me, it's different if someone says colored is different than... It's even different than colored people. Colored just sounds like a slur man! Yeah it is! That's why they had to soften it up with people of. Okay okay gotcha

38:24 But it's still the same. It's all fucked up. I'm just showing you that, because notice how we always hear when people are affluent or of some means they always say black and then they follow right up immediately with people of color. It's like a dog whistle to say oh people of color so I'm not black. I put myself in with Asians and Indians and Hispanics, you know? I'm one level above being black

39:03 Right. That's just my opinion, but I see this setting up as... But and this goes back to the Calergy Plan and we talked about that before. Right! But it also works the other way around. Camilla Harris will proudly say she is a woman of color insinuating that she is black or African American which she's not so its misused up and down Yeah, it's a safe space. It's like a neutral spot yeah But yes Oh I'm just pointing this out because I want to show the progression how you get to passing it was like You already had you already had privileges? Yeah, we don't look at what call it light privilege not white privilege So you already had light privilege but that wasn't enough and

39:59 That wasn't enough for you. You had to turn your back completely on your lineage and this is, I'm going back to where the rub is when Nicole Hannah-Jones made her statement This a lot...this is a rub for people It's like that wasn't good enough it wasn't good enough to be have light privilege you had to go all the way And go for passing Right So let's get into 1.2 But that is why when you look at the earlier classes of graduates from Howard and Spelman and Fisk and Morehouse, schools like that as well as the early members. I mean as you can see on the cover of a book at a cotillion in 1952 That 17 year old young women who are graduating from school for graduating and going to this cotillion in Manhattan were light complexion women So that's how this caste system got started

41:02 and why we have such things as the brown paper bag and ruler test, which was also an important aspect of this community. We've spoken about the brown paper bag tests at the historically black colleges I don't know but what was the ruler test? I think it's more where a ruler is That light, like wood color. Okay. Oh the color of the ruler yes I gotcha right well and just to go back to the and i think The best system we compare this too is the South African system which they had the pencil test Which is not about color more it's hair texture if they could put a pencil in your hair And it falls out then you can be considered colored and not black wow

41:57 So this is instant and we had one of our producers write into us about the same thing in India. Oh yeah, I'm sure it's like that in India. This is what...this is white suprem- this is the globalist...it's like this is what you need to aspire too Yes, the true white supremacy is pushing for this and the true white supremacy comes from the lineage of the old families, the old families who have run this show for hundreds of years. The blood! That's right, so that's your German families, your British families some Russian families... Families and bloodlines all throughout history Correct

42:42 So he brought up two things when you caught on to the brown paper bag and as you accurately stated we talked about it but I have the clip where we talked about it. He also mentioned a school in there that we talked about Fisk This is Matthew Knowles, Beyonce's dad. And this is from show nine speaking on colorism. Fortunately we had scrimmaged a little small black school you know larger schools scrimmage small black schools or play them in an initial year season and this coach at Fisk University whispered in my ear

43:23 Because I played very well in the scrimmage that if I ever wanted to go to Fisk University To just call them and I remembered that so you transferred a fisk transfer it to fists But fisk had the color the brown paper bag test brown paper bag tests. This is a real thing Oh, absolutely It's a very known thing in a black community Back tests. I remember azalea banks was lightening her skin at one point. And she was talking about the brown paper bag test and how black guys respect the brown paper bag. Yeah, well known fact in the- I had never heard of it until she said it. I didn't realize how far back it goes.

44:06 So they pulled out a brown paper bag? No, how it worked. This is I transferred in 1972 and it was the last class that they did the brown paper back and they would ask you for photo You had to submit with your registration And they would put the photo up against a brown paper bag. Okay, and Fisk was primarily black school? It was all black 100% black So you have a 100% black school that would not admit dark-skinned people if they were not athletes That's absolutely right or if they were women and they had very prominent families of very wealthy families that donated a significant amount of money to the school

44:53 Yeah, this has got to be my one of my favorite stories from the show. Historically black all black college in my lifetime sorry son too black can you believe that? That's eight years before I was born Moe we're not talking about 1872 Moe there was only seven it was only ten years before I went to college You could have gotten a fisk I don't know. Yeah, but just to just tan a little bit, I would have been good to go is crazy that goes to show you that wasn't good enough for you they had their own

45:43 existence, I mean their own structure culture universities and that still wasn't enough. Have they ever admitted to this? Have they ever publicly said wow we did that and we shouldn't do that and will never do that again and we abolished it then and then have they ever really come clean on that Fisk University? I haven't seen a formal apology uh and they probably won't And something else I want to point out that he says, like if you were good at athletics had enough money. You could get access even to this day with passing. Yeah. Oh, see what OJ? They would know the statement. I'm not black. I'm OJ Tiger Woods. These kind of things that when you're so successful that white society will kinda graft you in

46:44 as it's a term they use, prequalifier of successful black man. That means something different. Right? It's kind of like when they say you're different people tell you that oh, you're different so is Oh yeah, you could you're allowed to society but I digress on that point but i'm just going to show you i'm laying out the case of why I was so adamant and other people were so adamant about people passing and then coming back. It's like, you could have had light privilege and stayed black or kept your lineage. We're going to loosely use that word black. So when I remember we were talking about this it was in the context of reparations as we heard in that True Karen Hunter show clip now do you think that there are people coming back now because it's trendy?

47:49 If large sums of money start to be handed out. Yes, I agree if money is being handed out and as i understand the CEO of BET has calculated 14 trillion would be the number? I'm sure you saw that story Yeah I saw that and what's her name Laura Ingram she's not having it Oh, so I was like now you see that this is why it's tangible. It's not we're not going from one party to the other or we're not is what do you have me to offer me for my vote? Well okay all right so before I let you go on so what what okay okay What has now happened in this election year

48:39 is the Democrats are now taking advantage of this as if they weren't behind it in the first place but taking advantage of this and saying clearly you can only be with us. Can't you see? We are the ones with you obviously all those others, those guys that you should not be voting for them and I think that message is hitting home Mo I think they don't have a leg to stand on. I agree, but i think that the mind control is so strong that it's hitting home. I think it's hitting home with people who were going to vote anyway these younger people? I really think they're disenchanted with the whole political process oh yeah and what we're seeing now are these protests turning into riots or are bigger about... They started out as

49:42 Black people being outraged about a black man being killed in the most heinous way probably possible with imagery that strikes that I alluded to before, but once we came out. It's like, yeah let's get... once we open that door as my analogy I always use other people came flying through that door and left us holding the door. And grabbed the iPhones and all the Louis Vuitton bags because we saw who was going in mainly white kids

50:19 That's what I saw. It true and the ones that are antagonizing the cops, white, the ones they're getting all in their face yeah are our white kids or you know I mean, you got me. It's kind of hard to tell but i mean yeah no i can say non-black just say non black this ain't not because maybe they could be right non-black non-black non male how about that? Right! Yeah it's white girls standing in front of the cops with their phone taunting them so that they can get some kind of cred or whatever it is when they get pushed away or tear gassed or

50:55 It's a very odd phenomenon. I love seeing people who are walking up to him and saying, hey come here! And just grabbing these kids and pulling them back. You insane? Get out of here So this is what we're seeing One of the people that we talked about on the show so we're gonna get into who passes now Okay And if they're entitled to it We played this clip maybe a couple times, but it's relevant to this conversation. And this is was J Edgar Hoover black? One of the most disliked white men in the black community allegedly was black himself that rumor doesn't surprise those who observe some of those blacks who pass over and become white bigots to cover their tracks or perhaps they just suffer from self-hatred

51:48 But it sent Millie McGee back to her family tree in Macomb, Mississippi. To see if the man who became synonymous with the FBI and hatred of Martin Luther King Jr was himself her cousin who had gone through the special underground railroad built from the south to Washington DC for blacks who looked white enough to live as white people Thank you very much for being with me. Thank you for having me your book Secrets Uncovered J Edgar Hoover passing for white and I said passing for white because there's a question mark why the title passing for white question mark Yeah, I remember this And I remember looking at J. Edgar Hoovers picture going like never really considered that

52:37 And this is a phenomenon with people that pass and not all people that pass. And it's different stories and origin stories of people, and how they end up passing. So I don't want to paint everybody with a broad brush but there is a segment of passers that are self-loathing and become biggest themselves to prove that they are part of the club And I want to tie it back into what's going on now. You hear this, it's anecdotal evidence but you hear a lot about some black police that they're the worst to get pulled over because they're trying to prove... That they are not giving any breaks? Even further than that

53:37 It's like overcompensation. And they think that that's what they need to do to prove they're part of the club, so I think this is kind of the mindset of J Edgar Hoover. He didn't want to be found out, it's self-preservation to prove that not to get found out I have to maintain a hard line, right? We see this oftentimes with closeted homosexuals. They're very hateful towards other homosexuals so it's the same phenomenon it's this closeted thing that causes them

54:20 Hyper aggressive and and J Edgar Hoover had a twofer in that because not only was he passing but he was also That it was rumored that. He was a Homosexual also, but also that he was just across dresser which at the time of course would not have been acceptable certainly not from the first guy to run the FBI And now it goes a lot to his psyche, right? I mean you carrying that kind of baggage around. He got insane yeah These type of people and i'm going to use this term and maybe it's not uh the most accepted term but these kinds of people are seen as race traitors because not only did you pass and just live your life you know whatever you could pass as You are trying to cause harm

55:15 to the people you left behind and that's the most disgusting. And if J Edgar who was alive, he tried to go and claim his reparation check that he would might be entitled to... Yeah it would not work out too well. Right? These are worst case scenarios where people start to paint, use as examples of why you have the 10-year rule. Which, the 10 year rule is not... I want to be clear The ten year rule is not my rule but I'm explaining how it's... But it's how people think about and understand what it says more is just not about ten years or five years or one year like hey he turned your back that's it bye bye It's not that you turn your back into see

56:06 People think it's you turned your back on you your color. It's not your color I didn't say that I said you turned your back. No, I didn't say that I'm not I didn't say you said then I'm a Elaborating on what? You said it's not colored that you turned your back on you turn your back on your father or your mother lineage and your grandpa That is the most disgusting thing in my mind. I am so proud of to be my father and mother's child. I can never imagine, even if say for instance they did something heinous right? I will still not disconnect myself from them now to go back to what is going on now we saw this with the cop's wife

57:05 I don't know exactly what happened. I didn't follow that part. Oh, she's filing for divorce! Yeah, yeah once you're married to an animal... Right but that's still the father of your kids. So what I'm saying is we see these things playing out and like I said, this is going to weave in and out of the current event that's going on now but I just want to show examples of mindset of how people easily depart from...I don't care! Like I said my...I couldn't imagine anything where I would disown my parents. It's interesting

57:49 You know, there's another version of this from another persecuted group historically which is Jews who many have changed their name to sound less Jewish or in fact not Jewish at all. And I wonder how that's viewed by old-school Jews? I have no idea if they feel like it's turning your back on them or denying your lineage and your history And when you said that, it brought a thought to my brain of a movie with Michael Keaton. I can't remember the name of him but he was terminally ill in the movie. He had moved out to Hollywood and I think he was Polish and he had a Polish last name and he changed it. In the movie his father is like how could you change your last name? That's big

58:42 I don't think people understand how important, and maybe in this world maybe it's not now but maybe i come from an antiquated time. But my last name Lends to itself to my grandfather and his father it hits, you know That's what links me to them. I didn't realize that facts had such a long lineage as a name My life I think was the movie are talking about the This is not a exclusive to black phenomenon that when you give up your name

59:24 That would be the most hurtful thing that my children could do. But I mean, like I said, I digress on that Let's finish up with the Hoover situation because when we first when I first started writing the book, I Did not realize that J. Edgar Hoover was actually in my lineage and I was told it was rumors in the family that he was And just rumors so I knew that I had to put question mark until I did some research and made out for sure That he was a part of the family This is a pretty serious charge and not because there's anything wrong with being black, but because of the other implications. Do you feel comfortable making this charge that J Edgar Hoover... Are you saying in effect he was black?

1:00:16 Is that what you're saying? I'm saying in fact, that i am a black woman and he is my family lineage. He's part of my family. I don't necessarily like it. I didn't even know when I started but when I found out I was looking for my great-great grandmother who had babies by his ancestors And after doing my research, after two and half years of research I have without a shadow of doubt in my heart and the documents showing that he is apart of our lineage. He must've been more than 32% though during the 132nd 3%. Yeah so yeah he had to be when you do that. He sounds like 1 8th

1:01:05 Yeah, maybe one sixteenth. That one eighth would be your great-one of your great grandparents were... Right? So four would be your grandparents' eighth will be a great grandparents and sixteen will be your great great grandparents'. So yeah, he falls and with him though. It goes fast though man if you mess around with ancestry dot com You've dragging a couple of people like before you know it wow I'm at 1600 now in Ireland what the hell am I doing here? It goes real fast that's only like great-great grandparents and before you know it your all the way your before America its crazy! It doesn't take long especially for a man his age Right It really didn't take long

1:01:52 Yeah, so that's J. Edgar Hoover another prominent figure that we cover on this show and this was from Show 9 like I said, I'm just surprised how many times we danced around this passing phenomenon yes It's the double entendre of passing like right? We passed by it Oh yeah But we had a clip of Oprah on the pressure of passing for white. And certainly, the whole passing thing that's a whole nother as a whole another subject to pass anything but you know The thing about passing for those who did pass and leader was saying this from her family once you passed

1:02:38 The decision to pass means you've given up your entire family. You know? That you can never go back, because... Y'all understand that right? Because if you're passing, you just can't have your black mother show up. How did- You just cannot explain four black women in your kitchen all of a sudden! So that's, that lends to what I'm saying about you have to give up your family. Right? So to do that and then come back, That's a hard pass. I gotcha! Passing on the test Yeah it really irksome to me It irks me so much and i can't wrap your head around

1:03:31 But in fairness, yeah go ahead. How many examples of people doing this do you have? We don't know! That's the thing... I mean we've talked about a couple in the course of the past 30 some odd episodes. Yeah but we're talking about elite people though. Everyday fair-skinneded people We don't know. It's because it is so easy, I mean we have to look at too and we don't live in the age that we live now with a social media footprint and how you can search records and everything like that Well i'm talking about Sean King, people like this Exactly So I put him in elite class, the elite media class

1:04:26 But he's allowed to. That's the weird thing, he's allowed but he will be reverse passing though I think that's why he is allowed too It's not like he left and came back. I think it's the leaving and coming back Right That's the problem it's like you left for benefits And the only reason you return back is for benefit. Right, but are there any people who have returned back for some great benefits that I'm unaware of? No because the benefits haven't been there yet. You can't show me a single passing person who's like hey! I think it's time to go back and be black this seems like a perfect time to be black. Nah... Because you get a- It's like a cloak Yeah

1:05:24 We're gonna get into the reasoning for passing. I'm not beating up on these people completely because there is some justification and some people just actually stumble into passing, so we're going to get into that as well but I guess this is a good time to listen to the second clip from Oprah. Well, you know, I experienced this early when I was shifted from one parent to the other and I came to live in Milwaukee with my mother I was rooming with a lady and my mother has another daughter so i have half sister who is light skinned and younger than me. And they were allowed to stay inside the house, and I was forced to sleep outside in the hallway because I was brown-skinned person. My mother did it just because otherwise we'd have no place to sleep but the place was owned by white... not white but

1:06:25 I thought she was white, Ms. Miller who also passed and just didn't want the brown-skinned child in her house It's just really racism passed on to ourselves That's what it really is in a very strong way Yeah that's the key point And I love this topic because it's not something you hear often about Very often...I mean at all And it affects everybody and particularly if you have black people passing I think in many cases that It's quite a shame. Yes, this could be a lot of really smart helpful people and as we said before They were already gifted with light privilege now I will say this because I don't want to make this a colorist issue some of the most adamant and

1:07:26 forceful and outspoken black leaders have been of fair skin. When you look at Adam Clayton Powell, when you look at Malcolm X I mean his mother was almost she could easily pass right? So that's not the point I'm trying to make is the point that there is a segment and I'm trying to make this very clear there is a segment of people that passed that are racist Yeah. And that's where once again, no you can't come back and you stay over there. You went over there, you stay over there cause it just doesn't do well but that's not the case for everybody. That's not the case for everybody so now we're gonna get back to Lawrence Otis Graham, The Super Boulé Brother

1:08:29 And he gets more into the origin of the black elite. of their own community. And when I say their own community, they don't socialize in church or in social situations or business settings outside of the people that they consider to be their kind of people. For example when I was in Philadelphia I would ask people was Bill Cosby a member of the black upper class in Philadelphia?

1:09:10 almost uniformly, these old families said absolutely not. He's an entertainer so that was another aspect that I found within this group was that they didn't like entertainers they didn't like people who had made money through sports they wanted people as a part of their group who had gotten money through medicine, law and business So it was very exclusive group And i mean that in every sense of the word Wow, Bill. I mean of course now in hindsight good on them but oh yeah Bill Cosby interesting that he would be shunned and i guess it's the same with all every elite group I guess Yeah and we had this conversation about Donald Trump that he wasn't allowed He was allowed to play but they really didn't like him They just liked him hanging around with his money It was kind of fun But they really didn't like him He wouldn't take it serious as

1:10:06 You know as a player no As a player. No, not at all right so This go to show you it's not about money And these are a large group with okay I mean how can I say this? This is where a large group of your pastors came from because they interbred with each other based off of appearance and Color and those kind of things hair texture to the point where they could easily just slip into you know other part of society So that's why I'm pointing out with the black elite, it's like you had your own group Wasn't good enough wasn't good enough

1:11:03 You kept other people out. I mean, okay how much money Bill Cosby has? We're talking about in the 90s so Bill was a major player and he was pushing the Boule mindset to America In the 90's when i was at MTV and Bill Cosby was really height of his career I knew a guy who did his booking He would literally Take a cab to his first gig he would sit on a chair backwards 45 minutes do his thing $100,000 and he'd walk to the next one. He'd do three of those in a night In Manhattan three in a night sometimes

1:11:51 On top of the TV money. Oh, yeah. It was crazy or the most popular shows Yeah and not only popular and viewership I'm talking about Influential very influential a lot of black people went to college based off different world Yeah So we're talking so I think he was trying to show that he was of that ilk and he could be allowed in. And that probably, that probably irked him a lot. That probably played right into why he did a lot of that I agree yeah you're right i guess we can continue on with Lawrence and 3.1 so I wrote about Alice Mason did some research and found out that Alice Mason is a real estate broker in New York City where she sells apartments valued only

1:12:53 above a million and half dollars. So that's the only clientele she has is people that are spending $1,500,000 or more on apartments so clearly a very wealthy clientele and I also knew that she was friends of Brooke Astor and Barbara Walters and a lot of New York socialites. So I wrote about this in the book but when it first came out folks from Philadelphia called me up and they said oh great Alice Mason finally come out of the closet And I said, well what do you mean come out of the closet? They said oh well. I guess we neglected to tell you that she's been living as white for the last 35 years and yeah they have forgotten to tell me that little fact so it is unfortunately still a part within many of these families there are one or two cousins or uncles or aunts

1:13:43 um, that who've chosen to make that decision obviously it was in greater number at a time when it was economically necessary. Wow. So this is the thing? It's a major thing and now it's this I think now the safe space is not white anymore because we will have what we previously talked about. Now with mall, now the past is multiracial What's the other word they want to use? Multicultural, diverse background. Racially ambiguous is another one. Ooh! Racially ambiguous... This is nice. Yeah so yeah they just slide right you know because I'm like right now you can't really go full white

1:14:42 You never want to go full white. No, no, no never ever want to go full white you know that I'd never go full white of course not so it's like yeah oh you know I come from a diverse background you know these are the things they think the terms and terms you want to use yep and now that's where people look color is that safe landing spot yes that well okay hold on from a you're so right from a broader perspective if And I would say across the globe, you don't want to be ultra white and you don't want to be ultra black. You want to be kind of mishmash in the middle that is it's a broad safe space but that's it seems like that did the two extremes are in trouble. That perfect example set perfect example is Meghan Markle Yes When I saw her on I used to watch Suits The television show she was popular on

1:15:44 And I was like, hmm. But I was looking maybe she's Latina or you know that kind of...I mean she could go that's what we call it perfect example of racially ambiguous but in the storyline they had wrote in that she was biracial so I'm like oh okay now I get it right but she was safe enough to be grafted in Or she thought she was to the bloodlines. Yeah, seems like that was an issue. It didn't quite work- who knows what wouldn't work out there? And how is Harry being handled for turning his back on his lineage? Oh yeah no he's cut out forever but of course you know he already... He already was kind of not really part of the club with this

1:16:33 The ginger thing is a dead giveaway. So these two degenerates, they might as well go live in Candanavia and get away from us. Good riddance to them! But you see when he came out publicly to say I want to give up my royal claim... He was shunned. Oh yeah? And so I'm just going to show you again this is not exclusive right to the black experience So we start at 3.1, let's go ahead and get into 3.2. They couldn't try on blacks, couldn't try on shoes. Couldn't try on hats so they... So some people decided if they needed to, they would just pass in order to try on a dress or do whatever they needed to do Or if they wanted to sit downstairs and air-conditioned part of a movie theater or go swimming in a particular pool This is how people slipped That's why I'm saying sometimes it wasn't intentional

1:17:45 out of a place of malice. It was, man I really like those shoes but you know i had a wide foot so If you don't ask, I'm not gonna tell. You know like don't ask, don't tell kind of thing. Hold on a second. Yeah let me get those... What is this wide foot business that i know nothing about? No no! I have wide foot so I have to try on shoes. Certain shoes I can't wear it so I just put myself in their shoes and if easily try those shoes on just to make my day a lot simpler where I don't have to return them. And the shoe salesman doesn't catch on, and that's why some people kind of stumble into passing. Right! Where they get all of a sudden they get some actual benefit and like oh crap okay i'll take this

1:18:46 Right. It's like, oh yeah okay uh... Yeah that worked! I'm not gonna- if you don't say nothing i'm not going to say nothing Let me slide down here to the accreditation part of the theater and then nobody tells me to move So I think..I want to be fair here And I want to paint everybody as a J Edgar Hoover so I want to show how people just kind of maybe One occurrence here, one occurrence there. And before you know it- Then you move to another town... You might fall in love with somebody and it's like, eh let me not say anything! Let me no rock the boat Right So I don't want- But when the rubber meets the road, I can never go back home. I can never tell them about my grandfather or grandmother

1:19:45 Yeah, well that's a decision people are making for themselves I guess. It is but i'm just saying once again you may have stumbled into passing But at some point you accept that then yeah, yeah. Yeah, you would you make a conscious? Denial happens so I think we stopped it 3.2 and as he pointed out the shoes they know the hat You know you want to try go to swimming pool Or you want to sit in an air-conditioned part of the theater? I felt this interesting clip from is a little

1:20:25 mini documentary of I'm not black. I'm OJ and it's with Chris Rock, and he gives an example that is way more harsh and maybe explains why people may have passed my mother in South Carolina Not too long ago my mother not my great-grandmother they you couldn't they wouldn't let black people go to the dentist or So she had to All the black people in town got their teeth taken out by the vet Said to go to the vet. Okay, and not only did they have to go to that vet to get their teeth removed They had to go to the back door because God forbid The white people found out that they were using the same utensils or whatever the hell does the same equipment

1:21:22 on niggas that were going on their dogs. Okay? That's my mother! It's not like some old... This is not like George Washington Carver or some shit, this is my mother." Wow So imagine if that's your reality and you can get around that uh You can get decent health care Or you could walk down the street without being harassed Ima- Imagine I wonder sometimes If there was some

1:22:01 invention where you could walk down the street and not be harassed or mentally think you're gonna be harassed. Because I don't move like that, I can't go here, I can't go there and that's a freedom that my father gave me right? He gave me to talk but he was like you gotta live life yeah no you can't live life scared But a lot of people were raised to be scared as we heard the talk given on this show in a different way so if those people are allowed to Be given a mechanism that can make them invisible Because that's what it really is. It is it is it is yeah, because let's go back to the corona thing and the mask When you walked into that store

1:22:58 And you didn't have that mask on. Yep, all of a sudden stink eye. What was the... What did that mean? Oh, you're a Trump supporter. All you know your your all right all your anti science Yes, yes all of those things yeah Yeah, just from you being and you in your natural state now imagine Yeah Imagine my natural state is a skin color I gotcha I feel ya I totally do but it's A lot of people wore the mask even me!

1:23:37 Well, what's always shocking is then you hear a story like that from Chris Rock or as we're talking about the paper bag test, the brown paper bag test. This is in our lifetimes, Moe yours and mine! That's what kills me man it's like... What? This is all so recent and yeah you kind of grow up thinking ah we fixed all that we did some things 68 whatever it was all done And that's the danger of just glossing over history. Because now we don't see why people, not everybody was raised like me as a free thinker and a proud quote unquote black man to be honest I don't want to be anything but what i am yeah never would I want to be anything what I am never because that's the way I was raised I embrace who I am

1:24:40 But a lot of people was just like if I could just be invisible from not even if it's reality or not. Well, we can't we've seen where is the reality but I'm gonna say this This is part of the reason why black people spend so much money on retail items Gucci Louis Vuitton Jordan It's not it's because he's like hey, um

1:25:16 I deserve to be here, you know. I'm one of you." You know that kind of thing? It's a costume To say I fit in right? I fit in just accept me Really isn't it because I've never heard that explicitly explained that way Yes is anything we could put on to say Now I'm not saying this for everybody, but the people that go out of their way. You have some people to wear a suit all the time even if it's not appropriate to wear a suit or be preppy attire because like if I can put this on maybe I'll just be just enough. Maybe they won't see it. Right? Huh

1:26:06 But of course, it gets almost characterized when you look at a lot of these hip hoppers. Then they go crazy with the bling and it goes all nuts and becomes its own thing. Well, the other thing is that reactive. It's like now it can work both ways because if thats white I want to be the most opposite thing of white So I'm gonna be, you know dressed in another way But when I'm talking about the Gucci and you know those hot item. I'm talking about the ones that White people typically wear and there is a white Gucci in the black Gucci. Oh yes Gucci clan yeah, oh you bet there is right

1:27:01 So yeah, just imagine your grandparents had to go to the back door of the vet because... The back door? Yeah. Because I don't want those black tools touching my dog. Wow! That's amazing. As I always do, I start to dig. Right on. I went down this rabbit hole and I found this movie from 1949 that spoke about passing. And it was called Pinky and it had Jeanine, I think is how you say? Jeanine Crane. She's actually a white lady. I'm not sure because they actually use the white lady just to illustrate who she is but we'll get a good background

1:28:07 And of course this is fictional, but the conversation that's had between the grandmother and the passing granddaughter. I wanted to use it and maybe provide some context so how that may have played out. What is it Pinky? Oh, I wish you'd never sent me away You mean you wish you grew up ignorant no count good for nothing? You wish you never learned a reading right make your way in school? No Don't you see? Yes, Pinky I do see. Let me say something once and for all and never again Why is it you write me less unless it's time to go by why is that after you go the hospital I get no letter at all No You don't need saying nothing you think I don't know you think poor old evening woman like me living in a shack like this don't know nothing But your wrong Pinky. I do know And I know what you've done

1:29:08 And you know I never told you pretend to me is what you mean. Wow, this is a...I had never heard of this movie! This is really interesting uh..this is ummm....I'm looking at the IMDB. Yeah. While you looked that up it was a wave of these movies around this time period so I think will you speak to how popular this wa-how popular it was to pass? It was several movies that came out. I mean, we're talking about pre 1950 here covering these topics and it just to give some flesh out what's happening here the grandmother is uneducated and she she's the stereotypical mammy figure dark skinned heavyset lady

1:30:05 And her granddaughter is this white lady. I mean, for all intents and purposes it's a white lady. And she's saying, I'm not dumb enough to...I'm not that dumb! I know why you stopped writing. I know what you've done and I never taught you to pretend to be something you're not." So I want that to be, to lend how maybe that grandparent that you would go and forget about will feel about this. Now like I said this is fictional but sometimes even fictional things have some accuracy to it. It just happened. But there's a sin before God in your knowing. He was the conductor on the train

1:31:00 He put me back in another car. The white one But he knowed who you was, I put you where you belong myself No no it was after that when they changed conductors Then why are you ain't tell the new conductor? Oh granny...I don't know It was only a child Then what about school what about that other children talk about their kin folks Don't they What'd you say when they asked you about yours You tell them who your granny is Shame shame behind your pinky Deny yourself like Peter denied the good Lord Jesus.

1:31:36 Here, get down. Get down! That's where you belong Now you tell the Lord what ya done Ask His forgiveness on your immortal soul Come out here and get your breakfast I don't want to hear another word from you about what you've done again as long as you live Wow this whole movie is on YouTube by the way Oh yeah it is It's on YouTube for free Yeah put in the show notes for her for people to go find. So this goes to show you how she slipped into passing, she was sitting in the colored section right? She didn't get put into the other section or no...she was in the color with her grandmother. Her grandmother put her into the color section and then when they switched conductors the conductor told her like what are you doing back here yeah you should be up front right and

1:32:38 And like I said, these kind of things just...I could see this more playing out that somebody's like sinister. Like, I'm gonna create a whole new identity right? It's man, joyous fun! Do you think that if this was...I mean it's not quite the same because we don't really have segregated train cars but do you still feel that a lot of people will just say hey well I got this benefit by accident and I think i'm going to stick with it and keep it that way I'm like, I say imagine if you could wake up one day and be invisible. Yeah And i'm not talking about how society actually is on a widespread case. I mean like everywhere you go It's very harmful to have that kind of thought process Because it's very harmful but people do have it and for the one time you can escape it I think they enjoy it so much that is You know uh? And I would say that for maybe um

1:33:42 a Sean King or Rachel Dolezal. Right? Maybe the one time they were truly accepted, you know maybe they were like looked at as funny looking for their race right but then somebody says well you know... You should try this black thing for awhile! Right because let's go back to light privilege and I didn't use that clip but even Sean King said he benefits from light privilege So it's like now I'm accepted finally. So, I can see how that can go both ways. It's an acceptance thing but in the fact that you're being accepted, you have to deny something. Yes which would be your true past and your true self And then like I said that's where... That's the straw that breaks the camel's back so let's continue on with Pinky 2.1

1:34:48 And tell him to keep right on looking. I'm not interested in her But she'll die! Don't let her die...I didn't mean that, but Granny try and understand my side of it I only came back here because I hadn't anywhere else to go I'd forgotten what it was like I've been away a long time Granny, I've known another kind of life I've been treated like a human being Try and understand Granny, like an equal Don't you see I can't go back into that house? Haven't I had enough without that? Pinky.... I worked long and hard to give you an education And if they don't educate it a very hard action everything I've worked and slaved so hard for is wrong. Yeah, that's that's for sure Right right out of it. Oh, okay. I can understand both sides of the argument Mm-hmm. I can I could empathize also 1949 may have been a little different no man We can't put ourselves in those shoes exactly yeah, so you're finally seen as a human for the first time not a

1:35:56 No, as a subhuman. And that has to feel good- Less than the dogs you gotta go through the back door of the vet? Right! So you can sit down and enjoy a cup of coffee You can go to the swimming pool These things of that nature so I could understand but then I could also understand the grandma like I raised you Yeah To be better than this Yep And what she says is they educated the heart out of ya Yeah, and I think that hurt more than anything else. Like you're not the person I raised like your child like you're not the child that I crafted in shape and molded Are you gonna spoil this movie? You gonna give me what happens here or yeah, I know you have one more clip I want to watch it now. I want to find out what happens at the end. I'm sure it doesn't end well No, I'm not gonna spoil the movie for you

1:36:58 because I want people to see it. So, I'm just giving you snippets and bits just to add context because I don't have an interviewer or anybody that can interview me to have this conversation with or know to speak on this but yeah... This last clip, I wanted to show you how fast you can go from being seen as a human to less than human in a split second. What do you say let's go get her? Boy, let's go now. We ain't gonna hurt ya baby. Now don't be afraid baby we ain't gonna hurt ya. You sure just wanna have a little fun baby and not take it easy. Will you get over here? Come here honey. No! Stop please!

1:38:41 What a build on her. Let's see your face, baby. Hold up your face! Oh you're pretty, you're pretty... You're real pretty. What's the matter baby? You want to drink? Hey Al give me that bottle. Come back here girl! Come on back here girl! I'll let it go. I'm surprised Mr. Moe that you expose us to this trauma, trauma entertainment which you are normally so against. I went the show this only to illustrate how and like I said this is fictional but they went from ma'am you need a ride? Yeah You know in a rough part of town yeah yeah till she actually says she lives here did today try to

1:39:42 Attacker yeah, just didn't change her complexion Didn't change our parents and I'm sure in 1949. It was like that right so I mean like I said, I'm just showing you It's not about color. That's the key point here, it's not about color. I understand. It's about what class or caste system you're in. Oh yeah! She is in the lower caste so we can have our way with her and I do apologize for using trauma-based entertainment but just going to show this is nothing new either

1:40:28 Always 1949. Absolutely, absolutely. So I mean so there's some value in it and like i said I wanted to have a fair representation for a passer because you know I couldn't interview a passer so I wanted to hear put some context to why, how they were treated. Okay now I have a real story now from Megyn Kelly of this woman who learned her mother past is white. A secretive mother, a grandfather she had never met in a family history that she never suspected Gail Lukasa could not have predicted what she would discover when she decided to dig into her mother's mysterious past watch This is my mom and dad

1:41:14 And as far as I know, my father went to his grave never knowing my mom's secret. My parents met during World War II. My mom was an absolutely stunningly beautiful woman. My dad he had a great sense of humor. He served in the Pacific. He was very proud of that In 1944, after the war Harold Kalina married Alvera Frederick. They settled in a working-class neighborhood in Parma Ohio. In 1946 their daughter Gail was born throughout her childhood Gail says her mother mystified her in some ways

1:41:53 She was very meticulous about her makeup. She would wear a light foundation makeup to bed at night, which I thought was a little strange. She would never go out in the sun unless she had a wide brim hat. She would cover her hands with gloves really didn't like to be in the sun but Gail says the biggest mystery was her mother's selective memory when talking about her own father Asimar Frederick So this is going to show you the extremes that people went to, to conceal their identity. Yeah, wearing makeup and everything yeah. To bed! And like they said they didn't talk about her past so I guess we'll just let her continue to tell her story Welcome Gail Thank you very much Great to see you here

1:42:43 You did finally work up the nerve to ask your mother about this birth certificate. It took you two years, but you finally sat down with her and knew it had to be face-to-face? Yes, it had to be. This is not a conversation that you have on the telephone. And you asked her why she's listed as colored on the birth certificate. I did! I told her I found her birth certificate and it said colored And she became very indignant with me and she said, I don't know what birth certificate you have but mine says I'm white. So that one wait a minute so I said mom I have some other documents that I could show you the census records your father's listed as black and i have a letter from the state of Louisiana saying that COL means color

1:43:30 Well, she got very quiet. Very quiet and she's sitting in this large chair and it almost seemed like the chair was swallowing her because she got very small And she looked at me and said you have to promise me You will never tell anyone until after I die And then she said because how will i hold my head up with my friends if they know? Wow Holy crap Even to the end. Yeah, well then Everyone makes their own choices in life It's your choice how you want to live but I'm just giving context of the conversation that we were having before Of why it's so troubling To have this conversation or? to allow

1:44:24 the idea of allowing people that pass to come back. Oh, and it gets worse in clip three. We're back now with Gayle Lukasik who discovered a whole new family when she uncovered her mother's secret. Her mom had an African-American father, a mixed race mother, and she had run away from her past and had been passing as white since she was a young woman. Gayle thank you again so talk about those clues like breadcrumbs you wrote about Well, my mother had some quirky habits. As a child you accept your mother's quirky habits right? That is my mother. She never went out into the sun unless she had her hat on and many times gloves so she avoided the sun

1:45:05 And she never wanted to visit home, which I thought was odd. I asked her one time can we visit your family in New Orleans and no it would depress me too much to visit home and here's the strangest one for me is that she always wore makeup to bed a little light foundation and as i got older I did question that I said mom how come you wear makeup to bed? said, well Gail you know you never know if he would get sick in the middle of the night and the ambulance would come. And you always want to look your best because she'll get treated better at the hospital. This is where I almost have to insert the obligatory how did you feel about Michael Jackson? Oh how do i feel about him yeah or how did everybody feel about it was it was that secret and this is where

1:46:06 I'm glad you asked that question. That was a great question! Oh, it's not a great question but... No it is because I want to show you how money could buy your way into still being black. Oh? That is a great point because he was so rich and so done something no white thriller 20 what 25 million albums sold we weren't putting him up in the racial draft hell no Right, but clearly he was trying to have it multiple ways. True! I don't deny that even to the point of his children which...I'm gonna say this here and I get killed every week so why not? Those are not his kids Oh really you don't think that he's the father

1:47:10 I'm just going off genetics here. Look at Michael Jackson's pictures in his childhood. Yeah, well it was childhood yeah. And then look at Blanket and Paris in the other one. Them kids are not melanated at all! Nah, I haven't looked at them for a while. But I will say this... Everybody played along. I always called it out like, come on bruh. Mike had the big wide nose and the darts... But forget about the kids for a second just him! He was clearly trying to look white. There's a million different things we can say why he was doing it but at least at a certain point that's what he was all about yeah don't think you got rejected by the blacks

1:48:07 Because he was too valuable. That's what I'm saying, he was too valuable to cancel You, you that kind of talent. You can't put in the racial drafts. I don't care. But didn't you? I mean, certainly I remember white people will be hanging around like hey man Michael he's great what is he doing though what's up with this trying to look like a white person it was just like a secret talk y'all had it's like well you know he's too valuable to cancel but holy crap what's Mike doing oh everybody

1:48:45 What was Mike doing? But at the same time, he was such... I mean we're talking about Michael Jackson. You talk about Bill Cosby man he dwarfs Bill Cosby by like I mean... Yeah but with what? Hold on a second because it's kind of hypocritical because well on one hand you know it's so so he was influential because of money fame music Was it his actual lyrics that did it? Were his lyrics so incredibly important? I'm not speaking for myself here. No, but I'm asking you. I don't speak before why he was embraced... He was embraced because of his value to the race

1:49:30 Right it's like Michael Jordan if he bleached his skin we're not giving him up Works yeah now I'm gonna show you how much BS It is. And that's why I say it's a great question because now you pull back the veil on who in and who out. Right, but it's also well he's so important looking like a white guy that we got to keep him even though everyone knows he's black but he's trying to be white and

1:50:08 There's a rub there. I mean we can't all be pissed off if someone takes advantage of that for their own personal Benefit that is not so external, you know ultimately It's your Michael Jordan does good things and Michael Jackson did lots of good things for charity But yeah lots of people do stuff with money true no no no it's about money. It's about status symbol it's about We have one of those That's why we, like Mariah Carey. She is racially ambiguous but we embrace her It's about... And this is the very... Man you just pull back No hold on! Hold on stop! Mariah Carey she okay perfect example now your kind of in my wheelhouse here Mariah Carey was totally passing I believe she intended to pass throughout her entire marriage with Tommy Mottola

1:51:07 And then after that she was like, oh hold on and she was all sister this and sister that hanging out with Heavy D & the boys. And doing all crazy shit! She was acting black all of a sudden and we all saw it and went uh okay... Everyone thought she'd lost her mind Moe the way she was acting. I agree with you. She was welcomed back Let me explain to you what I'm saying. My viewpoint and the overall viewpoint of the quote unquote black community are two different things. Sure, I call BS. I'm like Mike What are you doing? Right those are not my kids Mariah Carey she played she walked that racially ambiguous line where as she could be anybody anything to whoever it to anybody

1:51:58 That's a problem to me. But when you're generating that much revenue, the people over at BET, they're going to embrace you. It's bullshit is what it is. I mean, okay, bullshit. Yeah, it is hypocritical bullshit. You can't slip in and out and like I said, I am a person- I have a standard and I don't deviate to What feels good. And of course, and I appreciate that but I guarantee you there's a lot of people executives at BET who will be bullshitting about passing but then when it's Mariah Carey she was gonna do your premiere video then all sudden is okay for her to come back and be all black that's my point

1:52:51 And that can be, and there'll be black executives who were just hypocritical for money. So I just know there you go. And they'll be the same ones that are counsel a dark skin person saying something. Yeah. It's about green. That's the only color that matters. You got green your car doesn't matter. That's right? Yes. And we're seeing that with the riots and the protests It's about the green. It's about the leverage. It is about how you speak Yeah, so I mean III you have no argument out of me on that but then this and then

1:53:34 They do this weird thing like, yeah we got Black Mike. You know? Like when he start messing with his nose and his pigmentation that's when it got weird. But you give us Off the Wall and Thriller... And after that y'all can have him. That's what he got for me. After Thriller. Personally I think once he was doing stuff with Paul McCartney it was already iffy but that's just me. Right but it's just not- The appearance is not, yes So where we at? Okay, I guess let's wrap up with the lady that found her mom was passing. Number four. So now your mom decides to pass as white before she married your dad but she marries your dad who is in the army

1:54:23 And you write openly in the book about how he was a bigoted man. He was, I think he was a typical man of his generation and upbringing. You know, he was bigoted at home You know, if he saw something on television that inspired him he might use a racial slur or if you saw something in the newspaper. Yeah and so... Can we imagine how that made her feel? I think she yeah, I mean she would say like oh hell you know you really shouldn't talk that way but she wasn't like Oh! You cannot talk that way it was more because she couldn't get too strong Right, there's a reason She had to dial it back a little because she didn't want give herself away

1:55:04 So, are you making the point that really the color is all... it doesn't really matter at all? It's really, it's really because it's so obvious that everyone is inconsistent. Everyone's all over the map. It's ultimately where are you really from? What what is your what is your real background? Oh! You're not from Ivy League...you know...not so interested. You're not from this level of education....not so interested And this is just maybe just dawning on me. So what you are, I think what you're telling me is it's really not about color at all? At all black and white is not about about color because Mike Tirico gets to say he's Sicilian and I'm like come on bro. I mean like yeah come on man. Come on man! Look here's the deal that it's not about and that's the

1:56:10 Yes. Okay, I got it! Well alright so it's taken two hours but now I think I finally understand it because what you're showing me is example after example after example where it doesn't really matter you know light-skinned brown whatever it's all ultimately about what someone perceives of your history where you're coming from And that's the perfect alley. And I'm going to oop it on home with this next clip, 23. With a lot of the people that lives out here you probably wouldn't take them to be black people. You might not look black but you got the black blood into you

1:56:57 My name is Roberta Jeanette Oiler, but I go by Bird for a nickname. I've lived here all my life. All my jobs that I had worked at they took me to be white And my best friend, she took me to be white. She was shocked when I told her I'm not white, I am black. I am a black person and it was well you're not that, you think you are? No, I know I am! I was raised that way but I was also raised as mom would say it doesn't matter what color your skin is Now as you know this is my home over here's my daughter's home Jessica

1:57:49 Everybody else in here, we're all kinfolks. That's how this community got to be mixed with white and black it was from the black children our children going out marrying white and bringing them in a lot of them was as light as I am but we still said we were black And then we had some real dark ones But that's okay they were black We were Black So that's how this all got started Wow, so it's so old. It's really so old-fashioned when most people are not even and I think this is true...I think most people don't really look at color skin color and go ah screw this! Everyone has all different colors in their life. All the just I don't there's a single white person who only is around white white white white people

1:58:49 Mm-hmm. That's not the problem It's all prejudice based upon where you're coming from and your perceived and we should probably do one on speech as well Eventually, oh yeah Yeah, you know I need to be at eight hour show if we did a speech in this one that's enough That's another thing about passing is is the speech? Yes another form of passing yep But as this lady said, this lady... And now a reason why I had this clip to go to show you. It goes both ways. Hey but hold on a second! Hold on just- Oh hold on a second So I was just thinking about this that the term passing is used in today's LGBTQIAPK community and so you can be a trans woman who passes

1:59:44 Really? Enlighten me. It's, well it's... but I mean it's literally the term passing is used in the same manner so oh you pass but then celebrated see what I'm saying? Is it? Yeah I think so Hold on So are you trying to tell if a transgender woman let me make sure that terminology right That's a man living as a woman Right? That's a transgender woman If she called herself a cis-woman that would fly That would be the equivalent to passing. Well, you've asked about putting a label on it... No I'm just saying that would be the equivalent here Not if she called herself cis but if she was accepted and recognized as a cis woman without someone knowing her history

2:00:47 But if she identified as a... see, because the self-identification is this. No no she would have to identify of course. As what? As a cis woman or at least would that would be... See that's why and if didn't let people know she was trans and only live her life as a cis woman That wouldn't work would it No, I'm just saying that's... Well that would be the equivalent. Yeah. Well anyway- It's self identification because that's the real rub. That is you're right yeah you're right okay thanks another data point i'm just stacking it all up here keeping my notes no that was great that was good that you brought that up

2:01:33 There's a lot of gray in this thing. And the reason why this hit home with me, because I said every black church I went to there was one or two people that... Because when you look at it, it's not jarring but when you're in a congregation full of black people and a white appearing person walks in, you take notice. You know like oh like who they're here to visit or you know that kind of thing? Who invited that guy? How'd you wind up here is the question I mean it's just interesting not good or bad is just uh interesting but when you talk to them and the reason why I noticed this was because

2:02:15 which one say a surrogate grandparent in me are a you know, you know like a play grandparent. Um His name was bill williams and he will fight you if you call him white Look completely like a white man I mean no Melanin at all So this hit this hit home with me and uh, I guess we can get into the part two of of this clip my grandma she has half turk half black My grandpa was a white man My mom registered me as black. She wasn't as fair complected as I am, she was a light tan brown. My dad he has German Irish white well his mother was a white woman His dad was a colored man and then as i grew older and i got married and i had my children i registered my children as black

2:03:19 Most of them in this area goes as black. We've got maybe two, three families that considers their self being white but the rest of us in here we consider ourselves being black. One thing I want to point out about this clip and then when we can move on but notice that she referred To her grandfather as colored. Yes, not black colored Yeah So that was she saying that because he was mixed a mix race That goes back to yeah it goes back Colored means something totally different than black right yes Cuz she made it this thing cuz she said I'm black but my but he's colored cuz her gruffing She said grandmother is white and he was colored right?

2:04:20 I'm just pointing, just pointed out. Yeah we said it previously. Geez well now we get into these tricky situations like this next woman who discovered that she was white after 70 years if you look through the pictures of Verda Wagnerberg's life in Newton Kansas it's a good one she was the daughter of railroad porter Ray Wagner and his wife Edwina life was good uncomfortable with was being a black woman. The couple adopted her back in the 1940s, she found out but never questioned her race but her story of privilege and progress turned over a shocking page at age 70 she found out she was white and I grew up not questioning

2:05:05 birth or anything else because it was never told to me that I was born white. Missouri adoption records show she was born Jeanette Beagle, the daughter of Earl and Daisy Beagle, Caucasian transients. Jeanette became a ward of the state after her father walked out on 10 kids and her mother fell nearly 30 feet in a trolley accident. Goodness! Now where do you put her at? Yeah, right. This is the clear debate outcome maybe some people got lost in the story. She's biologically white for her biological parents but she was adopted by black parents

2:05:53 And she lived for 70 years as a black woman. And I bet she had the entire, that it was put into her bloodstream even though and she was adopted? I'm sure that the cultural part translated perfectly and worked perfectly for her. She didn't know any better right? Yeah! And the crazy thing...and that's why i said i'm not holding anything against her actually The fact that she found out and still wants to be black I don't know how to take that. Yeah, go ahead. Well that's the thing you know this is the question is it your environment? Is it your DNA that's passed on from your ancestors that make you a certain way

2:06:40 I mean, if you grow up and you're a baby and you're being taught everything about black history and black culture. And how you speak in your mannerisms is all from the lineage of your adoptive parents. Shit man yeah, you may not have the blood but does it make any difference? It's a weird saying i don't know if this in all communities by non-black communities that when you feed a child they start to look like you Have you ever heard that before? No, I haven't. That's interesting Yeah so i guess maybe it's just in there So... Could be Uh yeah cause to be honest with you she looks like one of my great aunts And this is one of the times where we just audioed it doesn't... Yeah you don't get to see it but it's okay But I'm giving you the play by play But yeah she looks like legitimately one of my aunts

2:07:37 her mannerisms, the way she... you know like I said so all that's learned and it brings us back to the conversation nature versus nurture. Well yeah with nature versus nurture thank you well there is proof then i would say? I agree! So now here's a question of conscience if she was adopted and lived her entire life as black with the culture If reparations come around, you're not gonna cut her in? In my book I do. That's what i would say and that ends the argument once and for all it's not about your skin color that's a really good example! I like that a lot What did you say that was nature versus nurture? Yeah but nature versus nurture because they could remember that thing about that he was passed down from slavery yes yeah then in the nature...I forget the term they use but it's in the genetics

2:08:37 I'm sure a lot of the things she learned makes her have her perceive the world as a black woman. Sure, not genetics because she clearly is not genetically black as far as we know which who knows? This thing is very slippery so but let's...I want to hear more from her I wouldn't go back to my birth name if i had to. Jeanette Beagle does not fit for the bird Jeanette Beagle does not have an education. Jeanette Beagle has no social security money because she never worked, she never even went to kindergarten. And Verda Byrd who was ripped from her white heritage has definite opinions about Rachel Dolezal the former NAACP leader who chose to be black Why are you so upset with her? Because she lied about her race

2:09:35 I didn't lie because I didn't know. Bertie Byrd has other siblings, as a matter of fact, I spoke with one of her sisters she says they don't talk about race at all At the end of the day Byrd does acknowledge that she and Rachel Dolezal did both make a choice to be black just for different reasons Yeah see i don't think you get to do that...I'm gonna change my whole background Or really what Rachel Dolezal did is she just changed her skin color. She was still the same person raised by the same two parents as far as I know The reason i like this set of clips, is that go to show you that her lineage to her even though it's adoptive Yeah Is the lineage she grew up with So thats why I want people to take away from that clip And passings

2:28:55 Well, we dive off into the cringe portion of the show with these next set of clips. Woohoo! To show... new form of kind of passing this happening in my opinion. Actually, this is a value clip that somebody sent me okay and man by the time I listen to it, the cringe was so heavy! This is from The Conservative Twins. I don't know if you ever heard them before? No, I don't think so. And this is Uh, the African American lie exposed one. Am I not black enough now? I'm not an African-American.

2:29:43 I've never been to Africa. I've never been to Africa! Hey, look here y'all didn't listen what the young man said. That's my boy Joe Patrick Do you know what it is to be African? It just means your nationality where you were born Yeah You could be white and be African. It just means you were born in Africa! But African is not a race, it's a nationality You guys are Americans and you don't even realize it. You walk around calling yourself an African-American My question is this... Why do black people in America show such a strong allegiance for Africa? You wasn't born there. You're not African, right? Actually your ancestors was bought there and sold to the white man by their own people! Africans captured your ancestors and sold them to white people

2:30:35 Yeah, but y'all's got this such strong allegiance to a country you've never been. You don't even know the culture! You don't dress like Africans? You don't behave like Africans?! You're not African!! You just are stupid Americans!!! Like now if you was born in Africa... Right and you came to the US and became a U.S citizen, you could call yourself African-American But you left that shithole for a reason I've seen these guys these guys are Black right? They're brown, they're dark-skinned whatever the hell they are. No no no they're not dark skinned and actually very fair skinned and have phenotypes you know of light eyes and that kind of thing. Oh okay! This is one thing there like the male version a diamond in silk which... Well actually just listening to them

2:31:27 I wouldn't pick up immediately that they're black or brown or light-skinned, or anything. It was very kind of bland to me. That... yeah! The reason why I cringe is they're right but not on purpose. Our lineage is the most understood thing there is Technically, if you believe science everybody's from Africa. I mean that's the origin of everybody's origin The problem i have is...I've picked up this weird vibe and I've heard it said before-i'm not gonna put this on them but I've heard it said before that people say this I'm an American not whatever your lineage is That doesn't kind of fly because

2:32:32 You can have a lineage and a nationality at the same time. One doesn't replace the other, and that's why it's so weird... I mean it's like an Asian person is born in America right? They're American true but their culture and their lineages are something totally different Well, right. But then if you're gonna do that then you need to say that I would be a European-American, I guess Exactly! Exactly! Well... That's the other thing Why is that the only group that's kinda not hyphenated? What? European American? Yes. I've never heard that hyphenation used before Uhh.. No So it goes back how correct... I'm just saying that I hear people use this and its kind of like

2:33:26 The same thing is kind of like you're kind of denying your lineage. And like I said, not every black person comes from Africa. No! In fact, you were not born in Africa. You were not born in Africa so... and Africa's not a nation. I mean first of all it's a continent thank you another point another good point which I have another problem with African-American that's why I never use that term um but if I use ADOS Yes. People still like that, they don't have a problem with it? Yeah because it factors in my nationality and my lineage so thats why I was hit a sweet spot but im just saying yeah I kinda cringed on this one. Yeah I can understand but its true if I say hey its Adam its Mo we're two American dudes thats true. No problem with that. Thats true. That speaks to my nationality

2:34:26 Now, my nationality is not my lineage. No. Which is a total... which I'm gonna say this- But but but go ahead. This is so there's something to be said for who gives a fuck? I'm American you're American the Chinese lady's American and the red man's an American that's that I think that's where we're supposed to get too maybe not I mean no one has to deny where they come from But from an economic standpoint and from a nation standpoint, I like us being Americans. And not split into all these separate little groups in my personal opinion. Right! And the way you see this is the Olympics where you never see any black people go back to Africa to compete

2:35:11 on the African team. That's such a good point it's like you know in the soccer players in in Europe, so you know they'll be from all over the place. But the Portuguese or the Spanish or Italian player they may be playing for big money at a British club but when it's time for the world championships, whoop! They all go to their own country and they play on their own national team. And you see that in NBA as well I mean if you're from...I'm just saying

2:35:54 kind of a cloaking mechanism to not embrace your lineage. And anything that does that, and I'm gonna say this and we can move on to the next clip... Quote-unquote Ados lineage is so misunderstood. Yeah, yeah I think that could be a tangible in itself helping us figure out who we really are Wow money don't money donated to really figure out who we are Hmm I'm all for that if the candidate would say that I'm willing to put up X amount of billion dollars To help these people figure out where they came from you might get my attention

2:36:34 Because I think that will cure more than cash. Wow, that's a big one we should talk about that next time not... Yeah but yeah we can move on to the second clip but i just wanted to say that Lennish is huge to me Got it yeah so we're going to the second second clip from The Conservative Twins? All right here we go They're proud to be here! Like I'm American. I'm a black American. Right?! I'm not African-American You wanna play African? Go to Africa and play Africa for a while. Those Africans gonna laugh at you! Look at this dumb n***a, how wish that could go back to America with him?!

2:37:18 I mean, come on. You're not African you wasn't born in Africa! Yeah... You know what i'm saying? You're not African, you an American won't you start acting like one?! Your black like many people in Africa are But that don't make you african!! I mean did you learn anything from Elizabeth Warren You little's are ridiculous. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard you can identify as a woman it doesn't make you a woman, you can identify as a man from China don't make it Chinese! Yeah that's a whole nother kind of worms are open in there and I want to go there with them yeah we can't go there but I'm just saying this is just this oh god it made me well no when I listen to it yeah I understand now

2:38:07 Gosh, it's so confusing. We're so hung up we should all just be blinded Yeah you should be confused after this show that the point because none of it makes any sense From no one from nobody side It's like a brain thing that has been jammed into us and it's not good for anybody No one benefits from this crap Well ya think that was bad Uh oh 30. When Treasure was five years old, I've noticed Treasure was having issues with her race. She wouldn't play with the black children. Treasure would mangle or destroy her black dowels. She would cut their heads off, pull off their arms. She would pretend that they were the white dowel slaves. My mom

2:39:08 My mom bought me beautiful white dolls instead of buying me the ugly big lip black doll. I felt mortified, I was a single mom trying to support her family We couldn't afford to stay in our beautiful home we moved from mostly white affluent neighborhood To the city which was mostly African American From the suburbs...to the hood I thought you weren't gonna do trauma stuff anymore. Mo, now i'm all triggered again. No she's not! And the thing is she would be considered dark skinned because she's my shade which for people that's a Nutella color

2:39:46 The scrumptious Nutella color so um yeah, so I've never seen your scrumptious Nutella. I don't even know how light or dark you are Yeah, yeah So that's just for people that want to have an idea what color I am But for her to say this I'm like wow This is... these are the last few clips. I ended the show this way To show you People can be so warped in the head. This is a woman that would be considered, let's say a condolence of rice color right? For people to say that but she thinks she's white! Straight up and down this came from Dr. Phil. And that's why your parents brought her to Dr. Phil because she got a problem

2:40:35 Oh, she has a huge problem. 31! I was not anything like other black people they were all hood rats and they were all ghetto They all act like monkeys Her school was predominantly African-American She started to say very racist things in public Like i hate black people's hair they're dirty she would call them the n word It made me feel good to put down an african american person because it helps them stay in their place All the African American kids that I was around were all ugly looking and losers. They're all gorillas! My daughter is a racist against her own race. What I find the most disturbing is my daughter is consumed with the Ku Klux Klan, it just shakes me to my core. Treasurer have you ever reached out to the KKK? I have their number on speed dial! Call KKK they keep me like current on updated events. I've had the KKK's numbers since I was in middle school. Greetings from the loyal white knights of the Ku Klux Klan

2:41:30 Well shame on dr. Phil for putting this crap on the air shame on him I agree shame that enlisted I Like white people boom their monkeys Come on if you could take a black child and make her say Black keep black people in their place. Where is that? Where did she learn this from she didn't just pick this up on her own well, this has been I'm sure this wasn't the only TV Show seated it sounded a little Little funky to me package. Yes. It sound like it's a tension-grabbing yeah And listen if you just say this just say you got the KKK and speed dial because of course she doesn't

2:42:29 but she called him. Somebody asked... I'm sure they're in the phone book, i mean i'm sure you can give them a call if you want to yeah i'm just saying i'm just going to show you how powerful mind control is either way if it was staged or exactly even staged it as lame right so i just want to show that my whole point is all bullshit but that also had very little color that had very Very little to do with color. That was really about lineage, a lot of what that kid was saying Yeah but she's trying to pass Oh no I understand, I understand Yeah yeah that's the tie in with this That kid needs a whooping But oh man...I don't know how she made it that far The mama dropped the ball big time Well if she keeps that up She'll meet the wrong person one of these days She'l get that whooping

2:43:29 Well, as you always know I'm not gonna leave people triggered traumatized or on a negative note. So I found this last clip and it was hilarious No more setup needed J smooth I can't not tease Jay about the kind of like brother way He was taught to talk and you know like hey with the rap music in the background and like yeah people It's another interesting funny thing about race like there would be some people that feel that you co-opted something like that and other people might feel like well that's his background and that's really cool too. These are conversations where yo, yeah if somebody takes my wallet I mean it's really interesting since... It's also interesting because i'm actually black which we assumed otherwise and this is the sort of awkwardness we can look forward to in society. Absolutely! Yeah so that happened

2:44:20 Where was that from? Chris Hayes. So we have this guy, I mean he appears to be a white guy but she played herself it was like yeah you're co-opting blah blah and he actually is a black guy. He identifies as a black guy. Oh my goodness. Well, you know thank you Moe and it was very difficult for me to kind of get into where you were taking this when we first started off but having stuck with it and I'm glad I did It really brought home to me all the things were doing wrong about this in society We're really approaching this from the wrong perspective I think

2:45:10 And with we I would say it's politicians and media. That's really they're doing it ended there the harmful hurtful and And taking advantage of all of us is my it's kind of my conclusion after this Right, I hope this is another nail in the binary thinking casket And as always say pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself And we'll reveal as much truth as we can on the next episode of mo facts with Adam Curry That'll be a big one for us episode number 40 and it'll probably be in a week from now on Tuesday Moe was moving. He's got he's got a

2:45:52 family move to do so amidst all of that we'll also somehow be able to get a show out to you and I hope that this was helpful for people who just kick back relax and think for a little bit about what is really going on and where are we coming from, more importantly where do we need to go altogether. And remember to support the work if you can at MoFax.com, go directly to our donation page at M-O-E F-U-N-D M-E dot com, mofundme.com and until next week...Mo? I'll see ya then! Alright see you later Adam Take care everybody!

2:46:47 the heat it'll be all right and when you don't know what you're feeling at the end of the night in the summer in the city in the summer in the city so