80: Barry's Back

00:11 MoFax with Adam Curry for May 4th, 2022. This is episode number 80. And concerning today's date, may the 4th be with you. I'm Adam Curry coming to you from the heart of the Texas Hill Country in FEMA region number 6 and it's time once again to spin the wheel of topics from here to Northern Virginia. Please say hello to my friend on the other end, the Ever unimitable. I'm trying to fill up the space because I know it'll sound really cool if I can stretch it all the way. Yes, please say hello to the one and only Mr. Mo Fax. How you doing, Adam? Good. That was the freakiest DJ intro I've ever done. You landed it. Yeah. Had to hit that post, brother. Hey man, how you doing?

00:55 I'm doing well, how about yourself? Yeah, well good. We're trying to get back on schedule here. All kinds of things got in the way. Travel. I had an internment for my dad in New York and so things just got all twisted around. You had severe allergies. Anyway, no one needs to hear all that crap. We're here and we're ready to bring you the value that is MoFax with Adam Curry. I'm very excited. Usually I have no idea what it's about, but I do see the clip list and I'm like, huh.

01:31 Yeah, so it's going to be an interesting ride as always and I guess we can go ahead and get right to the wheel. Yeah, let's go ahead and spin it. Let's see this wheel of topics. Round and round it goes, where it stops, nobody knows. What will we be talking about on Mo Facts with Adam Curry for episode number 80? Well, Mo knows because he chose it for us expertly. People are dying because of misinformation. Yeah, people are dying because of misinformation. Yes, information, we're seeing huge information platforms change hands. It looks like one political party is on the full attack or even not even the party, it's the

02:17 The two wings, right? What we were talking about before, the pizza party and MAGA. And there's a new wing, I guess, of MAGA called Dark MAGA. So we might even talk about that. Well, I haven't heard of the official Dark MAGA wing. Oh yeah. I will say this, caution whoever's using that term. It could be another thing they loop you into. Just to say that, you know how I feel about groups. Yeah, alert, warning, danger Will Robinson, pay attention. You never know what could be behind the curtain. Exactly. So I guess the main thing we got to get into is Elon. Yay!

03:00 Tesla CEO Elon Musk has reached a deal to buy Twitter for about 44 billion dollars. Regulators and shareholders still need to approve the sale before it can go through, but Musk is on track to own the social media giant sometime this year. So for more on the sale we want to bring in Dan Patterson to join us to give us a little more clarification. So Dan, And great seeing you. Twitter sort of resisted Musk's earlier attempts to buy the platform. Though I guess when no one else is asking you to dance, because I don't think there were any other people really. Nobody else came in. It was pretty much it. It's hard to resist. What happened? Why did things change? I didn't even know Twitter was for sale.

03:41 It's good to see you both. Look, in a word, money. So Twitter's board and other executives close to the firm appeared last week to kind of rebuff Musk's there's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition and the desire to buy Twitter like Elon Musk, much like the real world when it comes to buying Twitter, Elon had very few peers.

04:27 Well, I'm not sure. Would you like my opinion of Elon Musk now or later? I have to let people know I haven't listened to the No Jinnah Show just for this reason. So I don't know how you feel about the whole Twitter thing, how it was received by the two wings. So this is all new to me. Oh, good. Good. Well, because I have my story much tighter now. So good. Um, what did you make of this purchase? Well, the purchase is not complete. The purchase will be complete, has to be completed before October 24th. And, uh, and that's what I find most interesting where there have been seemingly some changes already to things happening or people being let back on, even though this is the purchase is not done. There's a breakup fee on both sides.

05:18 If Elon can't, or if he walks away, there's a billion dollar breakup fee. If Twitter goes with another suture, then they would also pay a billion dollar breakup fee. So knowing how these things go and that now due diligence is taking place I'm of the opinion that all these extra followers people saw were bots that were let you know unbanned on well on no unbanned in order to show In due diligence that they have the number of users that they claim they do So I see that a lot more pragmatically now about Elon Musk himself have been very vocal. I think he's the Kim Kardashian of tech He's not an inventor. He's not that brilliant

06:06 He does have a whole vibe which works really well with money raising and particularly when you're working with government. All of his business is either subsidized directly or paid for through invoice by the US government. Skylink is clearly a military project, so I only see a gain for him by having Twitter not for the advertising model that it kind of is doing now, poorly. But for the value of how he will fix Twitter, which is very simple, he will force everyone to authenticate and verify themselves with your driver's license, social security number, whatever will be required, you know, so-called KYC, know your customer. And that is how you combat bots and that is how you

07:01 at least bring a conversation back into civil discourse because, you know, if you slander someone then your name is known and you can be reported and you can get into trouble. Now this will, and this was my prediction from early on, this will ruin Twitter. So Elon Musk will ruin Twitter no matter what, but the platform will become a part of the grid that the US government is spinning around its citizens and the globe. I find it fascinating that the guy that the so-called anti-establishment party is gonna save him is the guy that want to put chips in your brain. Like that. I didn't even get to that. I didn't even get to that part of him. I'm just saying, just notice how weird this is. They think the Savior is the guy that wants to put a chip in your brain.

07:55 Now he says voluntarily, but still. I just found that fascinating that how the anti-establishment party is looking for a multi-billionaire to save him. And that guy just so happens has the brain chips and the... But there's also predictive programming at play here, Moe. The whole Iron Man, the Stark. Exactly, that's my point, yeah. All of that is predictive programming. It feels good, it's enhanced. It's a... and I gotta tell you, there's something magical about fame and power and certainly wealth. You know, he is touted as the richest man in the world. I'm not sure that's entirely true, but that's kind of how he's seen. And I'll tell you why I'm saying this, because I was on the way to get a box fan at Walmart of all places.

08:47 And as I'm driving, Fox News, I usually scan between different things, but Fox News cuts off Sheila Jackson Lee, which normally I'm like, Sheila Jackson is pretty annoying. But you know, she was talking about some relevant stuff. And they're hurrying her along. Okay, we got to go. We got to go. Why? Because they had to switch to Amber Heard's testimony against Johnny Depp. And but they went uninterrupted, no commercial. I sat in the parking lot for 20 minutes. And I'm realizing that, wow, this is... incredible who gives a crap about these two people compared to even Sheila Jackson Lee has something more relevant to a news channel but I also caught myself saying this is riveting I love listening to this this is fantastic. That's exactly why they switch, they understand each other. Yes! And that's what Elon Musk brings to the table he brings some of that mystique that anybody can get wrapped up in

09:46 Right, so I guess let's go ahead, I'll unveil what I think about the whole situation, but... Oh, I got to do it in three minutes and you're gonna take three hours with clips? Okay, all right Moe, way to go man. I brought a knife and a rubber knife and a compass to a gunfight here. Let's see, so the funny thing I found was that on the other side the people that's anti-billionaire started begging for this quote-unquote white knight to come save the precious Twitter and it was so disgusting to hear these people like, oh there's got to be somebody. They're got you know, they were just just putting all kind of pressure. I thought who would step in, I'm just telling you who I thought may have stepped in is the guy from the Mavs. What is his name? I just drew a blank. The player from the Mavericks? No, no, no, no, no, the owner.

10:38 Oh, uh, Cuban? The Democratic Trump. Yeah, Cuban. He's like the Democratic Trump. So I thought he might step in. I don't think he has that kind of money though, but I thought he would be the perfect guy to step in. One other thing that really irritates me. This makes no sense that no one else is even making an offer. I mean, it would complete so many businesses, complete profile, LinkedIn. I mean, there's so many different companies that would, they could totally make it work in their current business model, but no one's stepping up and that's telling to me. And let's just go ahead and get into number three so we can hear those people begging. This is Jim Cramer. Wide range of opinion about what's going on. Right. Now, best and final means no negotiation.

11:26 Well, Brett Taylor represents shareholders. He can't do that. You can't just say, hey, you know what? We'll take it. You can't. That's not fair to the shareholders. And I think we keep in all the coverage this morning. I've not heard about the shareholders needing protection from Elon. He can't steal the company. Even if he thinks he has a better idea, that doesn't get him to be able to take the company. So I've left out, I'd like to ask David, because I think this is really important. David, there's a fiduciary duty to the board. And they cannot abdicate just because they got a best and final deal. This is not a piece of real, he's not buying a house here.

12:05 Jim, I think you're right on the key question that's come up any number of times already in the calls that I've had this morning. Best and final, the use of that term, which we rarely, if ever, see, certainly in an unsolicited bid of this nature and the initial unsolicited bid. You know, you use this term in the UK and you're stuck with it. That's it. Here, of course, given it's Musk in particular, there is a level of unpredictability that we all know is quite high. Well, I don't think this board is taking that short-term review. By the way, David, if I were advising this board, I would say there may be personal liability if they agree to this. This is one of those where they literally are not doing their job. There's no fiduciary responsibility if they just say, you know what, we take it. David, that opens them up. And you remember, there are times when individual

12:56 Individual directors are opened up. up for a level of lack of fiduciary that I think crosses the line. This crosses the line. Yeah, Carl, it's erratic. It's erratic behavior. It's not what people expect. That's a serious board. It's not a hack board. A lot of people felt that he controlled his own board. Maybe he thinks that that's what they've got here. They have no choice but to reject it. I think they can say, look, we're open to all offers. But beyond that, Carl, if they say we accept, they're phony. I have never heard this amount of begging and what adds to the bizarreness of it is that the money guys don't want to make money. Everybody's standing like to walk out and walk away from this deal like fat cats but they're telling no it's against your you know

13:51 Basically morals to sell to him. Don't make money. You just heard it with Jim Cramer. Right, so there you're seeing different agendas. One would be, and I think this board is probably very political. I know a few people who are on the Twitter board. And, you know, it is without a doubt the megaphone of the world. It's where you can gain traction, it's where you can get stuff done, where you can influence elections, there's all kinds of stuff going on. That's why it's so truly unbelievable, as in I cannot, I almost cannot believe that no one else wanted to buy this for that reason and that reason alone.

14:36 I don't think it's as valuable to them as it is to him. That's why he put such a big number on it, because the way I look at it is, if they buy it, they're just going to run it the same way it is. With him buying it, he can take the counter narrative. You know, it's like he's capturing a major one of their pieces but it's not worth for them to save it. It's a weird paradigm. So I'm just gonna state again, I don't believe that Elon Musk gives a crap what it's being used for. Other than... You don't think so? No. I do not believe he is Mr. Free Speech and I'm going to equalize the world. Oh no, I don't believe that at all. That's not his motivation. You're gonna make me jump out of order just because of this.

15:24 Let's go down to number five. Let me explain. I think Twitter is the AP. Well, I agree with you. Twitter is the news machine. I agree. It generates news. I agree. And he now he has his hand on that button to say, I can control whatever I want to be pushed. It's very so he can to me he can but I don't believe that's why he's buying it That's I don't think that's the reason I think this is exactly why he's buying it and it was no number big enough Like right now he when he goes to negotiate like it's Trump coming back Yes, or no, you know what could be talked about and just think we got the whole Kovac 19 thing Nobody wants to talk about that. I've heard nobody talk about

16:09 Once they let people get back on there that will talk about Kovac and could talk about it freely because remember that was the whole point of Oh, man, no mo. He he will everyone will be able to be allowed to speak freely You will be able to say whatever you want Anybody Trump won't come back Guaranteed he's not gonna come back. He knows what's up. You know, he knows what this is about. I He's not gonna come back. I don't think he wanted to come back anyway. I mean, so I'm... because it would kind of shoot his way. He's trying to do in the... That's... as far as I'm concerned, that's a failed idea he has over there. Yeah, I'm just saying he can't... No, it's failed. It failed. No, it failed. It failed and he's incorrect because look, Tina, she loves all this stuff. So, and she is my canary in the Twitter coal mine.

17:00 And so she finally gets on Truth Social and she logs in and then you know, and so there's a lot of people on there, but it's still a problem on boarding. It's iOS only etc, etc. And I say, so what do you think? She says, it's boring. I said, why is it boring? She says, because there's no no libtards to fight with. Exactly. That's the whole point of wanting this. What I'm saying is that will be allowed but it's not going to be the same because it will be MoFax and Twitter it will know your real name where you live will know how to send

17:41 lawsuits, torts, libel, slander, all of that to you. If he does that, he is an idiot. That's what he's... If he does that, he is... No, I'm agreeing with you. If he takes that model... Because Twitter's not broken. That's the thing about it. Twitter's not broken. My literal words, Moe. My literal words, he's going to break Twitter. That's exactly what I said. If he does that, then... He is not it right at all. I mean because it works perfect for the exact reason you said it's like the battleground It's the turf. You know, it's in in if I'm thinking he's smarter than me Then I would say okay He understands like he controls all the knobs now on what the conversations can be and that's why everybody was losing the crap in the media it was all about now is because

18:37 Let's go ahead and go to the number five and listen how the AP is structured and then we will probably better understand how I see him utilizing Twitter. Our reporters are traditional reporters in the sense that they want to come up with stories that a lot of people are going to read. But sometimes we're giving you stories that are important and relevant that aren't necessarily big traffic drivers. And so the reporters at AP, I think, have a little bit of a barrier, a cushion between them and someone who's saying, you need to come up with a bunch of stories that generate clicks or you're out of here.

19:23 I think that's one way that we benefit from the AP structure where we are providing news content to clients like Yahoo News and the Huffington Post and others. It's a big sort of growing area of, it's the fastest growing area of revenue generation for AP, serving these digital clients. So I think that it helps that we are a B2B in that way. Yep. That's how I see him using Twitter. Is being, you know what I'm saying, putting AP out of business because he'll be able to control whatever stories surface and by him being able to do that, then he, okay, everybody is beholden to him. You see what I'm saying? I see what you're saying.

20:20 I just have a different opinion, but I'm open to listening to your argument. Yeah, and we gotta look at all the political implications. So I just wanted to lay that out. That's how I see him, how he valued the company when he got to his number. And I think $44 billion is kind of cheap to be able to control the narrative because as we know if we watch local news, That's where the memes make it jump off the internet and make it to the local news. That's a successful rollout of a narrative. You know, that's the goal, to make it to the local news in that 30-minute block that they have in the afternoon or in the morning. And he controls the source of where all... You even used to talk about this, how they only go on social media to look for stories to talk about.

21:06 And that's it. So he really controls, I mean, the American media, a good portion of it. Now it might sound hyperbolic, but no. If it was left the same. Yeah, look at lives. Look at lives at tick time. Right now, Twitter controls all messaging and all memes. We know this. We know that now in hindsight, of course, we have confirmation that the Hunter Biden laptop was real and that contributed to possibly the changing of an outcome of a general election in the United States. So absolutely. And he has that power now. Well, so he doesn't have it. He doesn't have it yet. No, no, no, what I'm saying, okay, if the deal closes. Now, I'm with you on this. I'm not, you know how I am, I'm very skeptical. So I won't, it's kind of like, what is it called, Brexit? Or things like that. It's like, I won't believe it till, you know what I'm saying, that it's signed, sealed and delivered. But I'm just saying what he, how he valued the company.

22:08 I think that's how he looked at it because if you can flip that switch I mean we have we just talked about pizza gate what it did for 2016 on the last show right I mean if you let these means really flow it's very dangerous now I'm going somewhere with this so let's go ahead and get into um stop it we know we still we stopped it yeah for let's go back to four now so Dan help me understand um What is Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter mean for the platform? And, you know, it's interesting to me. I know that there are people on, that there are conservatives and Republicans who are celebrating this, and there are liberals and people on the left who are, you know, running around scared out of their minds about what this could potentially mean.

22:55 I find that fascinating because as Kara Swisher pointed out on CBS Mornings this morning, the majority of people are not on Twitter. As I've been saying for a long time now, I only know people that are in DC or in the media bubble or people who like to make a lot of noise that are on Twitter. I don't know anyone in my family. And I have a lot, I have, you know, my nephews are teen boys, you know, pre-teens and about to go to college. They're not on Twitter, they think it's for old people and insiders. So explain to me the strategy here and why you see the consternation or the exuberation from some in the political sphere. Glad Twitter is for old people and insiders. Look, that's the reality. Twitter is not the largest social network in the world, but it is...

23:44 at least in our world, it's the most influential, it's the most important social network. What Musk really bought was, just like we had a celebrity president, now we have celebrity CEOs. He really bought himself influence and power. So it doesn't really matter that Twitter isn't the biggest social network in the world. That's not what the competition is. The competition that Elon is in is for influence, it's for power. It is to make himself the most buzzy, CEO in the world and he did that by buying Twitter. Hmm. Yeah, that that seems to be a general consensus. He also he was bored. He had nothing to do. He wanted to do that. He put he put some of his Tesla in some light to moderate risk by doing this financing, you know, and all of that with this the reputation.

24:35 Reputational risk? Yeah. Right, I think it's if somebody comes out with another EV The government, you know, will be willing to work with him more than Elon. Yeah, especially since he's a non-union guy. Okay, we're the anti-Tesla. Look who's in this thing. And it's all about narrative, right? Well, look who makes your car. But also, I think he opened himself up to that potential threat. Also, the European Union is in the process, which you never know exactly how it works, but I guess it's kind of already there, of passing the Digital Services Act. They have made very clear that oh under Elon Musk. Don't worry, man. We're gonna cut you off There'll be no Twitter in Europe if you don't follow our rules So there's all kinds of things that are gonna make life very difficult for him, which again Leads me to not believe that this is about a power play for him I have a clip that I did not that I played on no agenda John couldn't hear it and

25:34 So I stopped it. I want to play it for you. See if you can hear this is Jack Dorsey was a big conference a Twitter conference and he dials in Elon on video conference and You know first he makes a joke like if you it's like he said hey Elon. Hey, you don't how you doing? If you were running Twitter, it says would you like to run Twitter and you have joke joke joke? Is this from 2017 or something or 2019 a couple of years ago? I And then Elon is very clear what he would do to fix Twitter and also hopefully you'll be able to hear it You might have to adjust your volume volume and stuff. Here we go Give us some direct feedback critique. What are we doing poorly? What could we be doing better? And what's your hope for our potential as a service? Can you hear that?

26:23 Yeah, he basically wants to critique how they could be better. Is this a real person or is it a botman or a sort of troll army or something like that? So, maybe you can stand up here. What are the comments from basically how do you tell if the feedback is real or someone trying to manipulate the system? Or probably real or probably trying to manipulate the system? So some way to differentiate between this is a real person versus a, you know, someone trying to just game the game system.

27:20 I don't know if you could hear that but what he keeps coming back to the same thing. You can't tell who's real or not. Yeah, he says if you can this his fix and it's a real fix it is is to you know look Twitter already has the verified badge right so now everybody will have to be verified and when you log in you will have to authenticate and you'll have to authenticate you know in some manner that shows it's not your secretary or your brother or You know an imposter, but it's really you and that will remove 95% of all the problems of Twitter, and I think it removes 85% of the fun

27:57 I was about to say that because if everybody gets a blue badge then what good is having it? The game is over. You've removed the, how do we get this blue check kicked off Twitter? I mean that's the game. That is the game. Or how far, how tough am I? How far can I go? Exactly. But I think that So let's, but for purposes of your preparation, I'm willing to go with any theory at this point. Okay, so I guess we need to get into the 4A free speech. Good evening from New York, I'm Chris Hayes. There is almost no more contested phrase in America than free speech.

28:37 In fact, freedom of speech has been, well, contested for millennia, since the ancient Greeks first introduced the concept, at least in the Western canon, 2,500 years ago. And of course, the First Amendment to our Constitution protects freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and in practice, well, it gets pretty complicated. As legendary reporter A.J. Lydling wrote in The New Yorker 1960, quote, freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one. Pretty smart thing to say. It's carried on for decades because we are now seeing that exact principle play out before us. This act of desire to own a press, to control freedom of the press from some of the right, to control who gets to speak and how under the guise of free speech. That is what the celebration of billionaire Elon Musk buying Twitter is all about. Twitter.

29:28 It's in Elon Musk's hands, can you believe it? Count this one as a victory for free speech. And he may in fact save the town square. It could turn out to be a pivot point in our history. Elon Musk believes in free speech. He thinks everyone should be allowed to talk. People should be free to say what they want to say without just being shut down, silenced and canceled just because it doesn't fit what their far left narrative. They want everyone to be free to say what they want to say. Even if, in the case of Donald Trump, they use the platform to incite a deadly riot, like Trump did before he got kicked off Twitter. But okay, fine.

30:04 Yeah, I love all these examples and this poo-pooing of the concept of free speech by certainly leftist media. It's really funny. And then the exuberance and the overjoyed nature of right-wing. Oh, it's Elon's saving. Joe Rogan had an orgasm. He's like, oh, Elon, he's going to save us. Like, oh my. And Joe's a buddy, I gotta call him out on that. I gotta call Joe out on that. It's two camps on the, I'll just say the anti-democratic side or anti-liberal side is that one camp is just, they're happy to see Twitter not

30:51 They're happy to see people so upset over the acquisition of Twitter or the potential acquisition of Twitter. And they don't really believe in Elon themselves, but it's like, yes. It's a part of the game. It's like you're playing Call of Duty and all of a sudden they change the game in your team's favor. Right, and that's exactly the symbolism of it. But that's what makes it even more bizarre, is the counter-narratives that people are going against their own talking points. You know, everybody's ready to stop on a dime of

31:28 Growing their own not say everybody but the people to say oh we need to go build our own We need to have our own we need to have our own space where we can say what we want to say right now the Elan's Quote-unquote captured that piece for them. They're ready. Oh, let's run back to Twitter. You know. Yeah. Well the matt mastodon was up mastodon Usage increased a lot with with a lot of a lot of people who are definitely leftist and Which is kind of fun, but you know, it's like that was exactly what they scoffed at with MAGA. You know, it's like, well, go build your own then you fools. Go see if that works. And it doesn't. It doesn't work. I mean, that's the funny thing about it. It doesn't work. It won't work for right. It won't work for left. That's why I find it fascinating. The whole, this whole thing. So we got to keep the ball rolling. All right. We jumped over. We already did fives.

32:23 The most important part about Twitter, black Twitter. We have to talk about it. This is what showed the real how deep it went. Because like maybe an hour after the news broke, LA Times wrote an article talking about Elon Musk, will Elon Musk kill black Twitter? You know, that kind of thing. And that let me know how valuable this acquisition is, or potential acquisition, to the 2020, 2024, as you know, they build these political campaigns out years and years in advance.

33:09 Mm-hmm. Nobody accounted for Twitter even being allowed to say some of the things that black people have been saying. This thing, you thought black Twitter represented not, I mean, like black thought. Or the average person when they went on Twitter before you met somebody like me. Because I'm not in black Twitter. They would never let me be there. I wasn't getting any black Twitter. The Algos were not showing it to me. They're like, skip this guy. But you got it second or third hand, so you would hear about it, Black Twitter in the media. Of course, yes. So it was even more sanitized. Yes, it's true. True. But that's, everybody thinks, so first, okay, let's go back. So we got Tiffany Cross here, and I'm using a lot of MSNBC. For some reason, MSNBC, NBC took this the hardest. Do you know why? Do you have a...

34:03 They took it to heart, those poor suckers. Yeah, I mean, because they were really hurt. So we got Tiffany Cross here with Michael Harriot. He's a white people-ologist, literally. A white people-ologist? Wait a minute, what's his name? White people-ologist. So it's W-I-P-I-P. Well, go to his website. It's Michael Harriot, H-A-R-R-I-O-T, Michael Harriot. You think I'm kidding. And they said the definition is a professional who has specialized knowledge in the field of... Oh yeah, it's a world-renowned wipologist. Right. What is a wipologist? Let me just see. I think it's peepologist. Wipe-opologist.

34:51 Well, it's it's slang. Yeah, it's slang. It's not yeah, it's a black person Yeah, black person who studies white people or white people. Yeah, like Professional who has specialized knowledge in the field of Caucasian culture including the political economic and social habits of white people in their history I'm glad he knows me so well. I can't wait to hear what he makes of me. Talk to me about what you think this means for Blacksweater now that Elon Musk has taken over the platform. Well, you know, I guess we'll wait to see because we kind of don't even know if Elon Musk will really purchase Twitter. I mean...

35:36 Like when we're talking about Twitter and social media in general, we have to remember that it's not just like black people are cool and that's why they run Twitter. First of all, black people hold three of the nine patents that created the personal computer and the cell phone. And so our intellectual property is what drives these devices and the phenomenon of cultural media. And I don't think that Elon Musk can stop that because he needs those

36:11 those black voices. Twitter knows it. Twitter hired black people. What is Twitter without us? Right. And they hire black creators to kind of drive it toward our content. So they know that the valuation of their company, because you know, we can get into a conversation about how the valuation of all these companies is just... Wait a minute, did he say that Twitter was hiring black creators? Yes. Yes. Black creators to kind of drive it toward our content. So they know that the valuation of their company, because you know... Hey! Yes. Where's our money? Where's our check, Twitter? No, no, no, no! This will never ever be popular. Let's just be clear. I'm just kidding, Mo. I'm just kidding. I'm just messing with you. ...about how the valuation of all these companies is just some imaginary numbers that people... I say you're worth $3 million, you know, yeah. But if it is worth something, then it is because of Black Twitter or the Black voices that drive social media.

37:10 And you know there are other communities on Twitter also, like the trans community on Twitter, the Latino community on Twitter. A lot of different communities on Twitter try to create movements there. You always gotta tie it back in and that goes to show you wherever black Twitter goes all those groups that she listed after it is like that black Twitter is the mama duck. And all the other little groups, the trans, every other group like that has to stay, they have to all work together because of quote unquote black Twitter. That's why I'm working at 80 episodes already. I've been working with you My only mission is to get black Twitter to podcasting 2.0. That's all I'm in it for mo You heard him say they hire people Twitter hire they know yes sadly sadly we don't have any money to hire anybody and just think

38:08 Me and you are what we do is not taking one side of the other that'll never be popular no matter what the platform is Right, it's true. It's true Yeah, cuz this like now half the people upset cuz you're not you're saying taking the hopium of Elon buying Twitter You know and then the other half maybe like, you know, it's not you know, I It's really interesting in the past two and a half years, because I do think I'm pretty much, I mean, my personal thinking is more conservative than liberal, but you know, I can't objectively view things. It's just so often so obvious where things are, where the right side is. But when it gets personal to someone, everyone's always laughing until it gets personal.

38:57 You know, so everybody was, everyone laughs about all the jokes and COVID and everything, but then all of a sudden if it's about Ukraine? And I'm saying, yeah, okay, we've seen this movie before, you know, in fact, literally, I saw this in the video game and, you know, not all of this is real. Then people are like, wait a minute, I'm in Finland, this is pretty close by, you know, Russia's right here and you guys, that's not funny, man, that's not funny. So I'm used to that, that's how it goes. But luckily, mature adult people cool down and come back. And that's no place for Twitter. Not at all. Twitter is the bar. You know, you go, it's like, you always wonder why all the games went to that one bar. It's like, have a bar fight. It's like, that's why you go there. You know what I'm saying? To tear the club up. You want to go get some scalps.

39:48 You know, and that's both sides. That, you know, the screenshot of somebody blocking you or, you know, that kind of thing. Just to even say it goes in our vernacular. It's a super fun game. It really is. And my wife, she's good at it. I love watching her play the game and she knows she's playing the game. Especially when you get one hooked. I was a legit like back in like 20 Super troll I was super troll so when you get one hook it's

40:25 It's no rush like it to see how many replies you can get out of me. That's funny. Super troll Moe, I had no idea. But that's why Trump did it, right? You know, just this is what the screenshot is. This is what they call, quote unquote, the clapback. Which is why I can't understand why Trump doesn't see that this is a failed idea. What's that? True social. No, that's the lair. That's where you go and compare scalps after you come into the bar. Yeah, but it's not what he wants. I understand. Yes, exactly. You can go back to 4chan or Mastodon or whatever. There's a lot of places you can go and look at your scalps. But the scalp-looking place is not where the action is. And Trump needs the action. And it's never going to get him the action that he wants.

41:21 That it would never be the bar. No no yeah, you can never know I mean, that's where these little Pocket things are gonna be in your true social where you can go back and show off your wares yeah, I got blocked you know saying yeah, I'm here true social you know that kind of thing so it's like and then you come back to Twitter and then the great thing about it is now where you can if he buys it and he uses the option of, well we might ban you but not forever. So now it's like a prison sentence. You get an extra life. You can re-res. That's what it is. Yeah sure. Oh I can see all that. Yeah totally. But... No, that's it.

42:07 Also, well now we got to get into the background of what black Twitter is because like I said I've never my brand of thinking is not welcome there for various reasons and it's a very You have this Was just go ahead and get to it and this is I think from PBS Say it loud and this is the reason why I'm hashtag black Twitter is this and it's totally awesome. I All right, everybody we all just heard what happened in the news We have a 60-second window to react before another thing happens in the news you Create a hashtag that is scathing culturally relevant and hilarious all at the same time you Remix the footage so that it becomes a meme referenced more than the original source material You patrol all news outlets so that when they speak of this day they call us by name and you

43:02 Get someone fired. Someone like, like should I get on LinkedIn? You know what? I fire me. Look, we'll give you a quick rundown, but we're not here to convince anyone that Black Twitter exists. If you know, you know. We want to explore why it exists and what happens both online and IRL when culture and connectivity collide. Stay woke. As far as Black Twitter's origins go, here's what we found. In February 2009, about three years after the platform's creation, the term first appeared in Google's search volume index. That just means that someone somewhere tried looking it up enough times that Google started tracking that particular search.

43:50 In October 2009, Pew Research Center reported that Black Americans use Twitter more than the other demographics polled. And in November 2009, writer Corey Sika published a short blog post titled, What Were Black People Talking About on Twitter Last Night? In it, he revealed his obsession with the unique way Black users use hashtags. Obsession. Hmm. Obsession. I've always stated that I think we're the best of that the real value that we bring to America is that our influence on culture.

44:27 I mean you hear it in music, you see it in my pop. Hands down, hands down, no argument. So that you take that and you can weaponize that around or utilize that around a hashtag? Look at ADOS. I mean when I talk about ADOS I always have to let people know that hashtag and the power that it had, and seeing the Democratic Party stamp out. It was so powerful they had to classify it as Russian bots. And that's the fear. And this is the fear that you hear from, who was that, Tiffany Cross and Michael Harriot. This is the fear, like, oh now we can't silence all the black people. Just like, you know,

45:18 If you want a real cross-section of quote-unquote blackness, YouTube is a far better source than Twitter because they control what hashtags. And I've seen it, I've seen hashtags be suppressed and I've seen them be amplified. And this is a great control mechanism when you talk about activating, going back to politics to activate, you know, look at Black Lives Matter. That was a hashtag. And with that, Correct me if I'm wrong, but did hashtags exist before Twitter? No, hashtags were a... excuse me. I followed this very closely because I was there. Hashtags were an invention by the users of Twitter.

45:59 And they just kept doing, you know, hash mark, which I'm not quite sure who coined the term hash tag. And that was just something users were doing. And then Twitter finally, it was like, it was two, well, two years into it and people were taking big ownership of the platform. This is the genesis of Twitter, which is not often discussed, but it was very open. Any developer could go in and create an app or create a different version or you had these scheduling things, which you can still use today, but you could view Twitter in a different way.

46:35 just it was really an interesting platform. So people took ownership. And then when the hashtag was finally recognized by Twitter itself, and then they made it searchable by hashtag, etc. That was that was kind of a very cool community thing that that Twitter had done, recognizing that the users had contributed to the platform and built that out. It was it was quite astonishing. And it's still And you gotta remember, like, this is how, like, old I am in a way, but I look at the hashtag, and I still see pound sign. Yeah, of course. And I don't think kids or young adults understand that. Like, I mean, because, like, that was one of the symbols on the phone. Yes. Bottom right. Bottom right touchstone pad. Yeah. So how ingrained it is, we talk about memes and, you know, symbolism,

47:29 That, you know, that's ingrained in us. There were jokes at the time. I recall comedians making jokes about, you know, how the pound sign had been transformed to the hashtag. Yeah. I can't tell any of the jokes, but that's how culturally significant it was, this change. This creation. And for the, they're saying the quote unquote black community, And it allowed what they call, see black Twitter is not a place. It's not really a thing. It's like an energy. You know what I'm saying? Something's going on and everybody, it's kind of like what Versus was. You remember Versus? Of course. Now everybody was locked in, it was COVID. They said, okay, let's take some of our older black celebrities and let them have like a competition. And how natural it was. No, nobody said, okay, no, a big rollout for Versus. You know, you didn't see it on television shows or, you know, TV ads or radio ads.

48:30 It was just kind of like oh, it's the thing all day. Oh, well if I may analyze from afar Black America has always communicated through media and Hip-hop, of course, you know that that was black CNN and and it was obvious So, you know MTV played a role in that but really it was it was more the the original rap battles on the street and It was cassette tapes, passing them around, playing the shit loud in the car, gang culture plays into that. But communication, since it's always been underrepresented in the media landscape, communication has always gone through self-invented means.

49:14 You had to use the existing infrastructure. Yes, whatever there is. Give them a telephone. Yes, exactly. You party line from party lines to cassette tapes. Yeah, yeah, I know. I know this really well. And then they would mix the two together where you put the telephone with the radio. That way the callers could call in and get the response. Oh my God, Saturday night or Friday night, everyone listening in their car. It's like, Hot 97, hey, it's Shaniqua. Hey, Shaniqua. how you doing? You know, and we're just out here. You know, it's totally, it's a total feedback loop. Very, even a shout out. I mean, shout out the term shout out by itself was invented during the, or was popularized during the area, uh, era of Arsenio Hall, I think. Right. Shout outs and in the house, these types of things. So that's this black Twitter people may say, Oh, what? No, that's just, it's not non-important. No,

50:11 Because if you run afoul of that energy you can get cancelled very fast That's why George Floyd was such a thing because you had this image you had this video and then they were able to you know, channel that energy successfully and they ran it into the hashtag Black Lives Matter. You know, that hashtag was sitting there kind of dormant in the in-between time but that energy that was got behind the whole George Floyd thing was channeled through Black Lives Matter and gave it life again. So, And if don't become a hashtag, that's the thing. That's like the actual thing is like do not become a hashtag. So I guess we can go ahead and move to part two and okay, that's how.

50:54 I think we stopped at nine. Yeah, that was eight. Yeah, so this is part two of the PBS The Reason Black Twitter Exists. Okay, let's go ahead and get into that. The following year, articles from Slate, The Root, with alternating opinions, Gawker, and NPR all take notice of this phenomenon. Across the platform, about 500 million tweets are fired off per day. So how How do individual black people come together to form Black Twitter? Hashtags. That's what made Black Twitter so innovative and disruptive. Its members used hashtags to talk about seemingly random, regular, not time-sensitive stuff with such veracity that it would trend. Since that original Pew Research Center study in 2009, more people have researched what makes the internet such an active place for black folks.

51:40 I oftentimes say that, you know, in my sort of research and looking at black Twitter and young people's use of Twitter, that they move from kind of power users to powerful users, right? And power users, right, are people who might use Twitter, right, at an exceptional rate compared to other populations or segments of the population. But powerful is something different, right? Powerful is sort of used in a way to have social impact. And so in that sense, I think as people begin to understand the potential that social media provides in terms of a tool for connecting, a tool for building, a tool for communicating, a tool for organizing, that they're beginning to understand how to be powerful and not just power in terms of how they use the technology. Trending topics were usually about current events.

52:23 But you know you're black if black moms be like and late night You ain't hitting it right that Corey reference in his piece were all forms of storytelling as opposed to updates Okay, yeah, so that's the hashtag and that's a pretty good explanation. Actually, that's well done PBS surprise. That was a good one I found you know not to be cringy. Yeah, but of course they had to stay but once again, that's why you hear you have to stay on message because I've said this a lot of times, the conservative, they are... their party is created around principles and morals and that kind of thing. The liberals is more a coalition of different agendas and they can step on each other's toes. This is the language that you hear of black and brown or when they say black, they had to come back with the LGBT trans. It's like you got to give a shout out to the other groups because if you don't, then it can, you know, this is where you see kind of people

53:26 you know, looking to, you know, make sure their agendas are rep or their hashtags are rep. So I guess we can go ahead and get into 9A. But I have to say, like, Black Twitter is probably the most robust in terms of engagement. And it's something that so many people have asked me about. What is Black Twitter? Where is Black Twitter? If you don't know, it's not for you, probably. But I I'll ask you this though, because I know you're saying we can't leave or we shouldn't leave because that's where we create change. we could go to other platforms to do that because I think if he brings opens this platform up to other people you know do you want to be entertainment for the white supremacists that are gonna flood this platform again if he's going under free speech as he suggests? I'm not saying we can't leave or we shouldn't leave because because first of all there are a number of back home... Tell us, we are looking to you. Where's this from? This is from MSNBC.

54:29 And that's pretty unbelievable to say, hey, you know, Elon Musk, you know, I mean, what's implied, what she's saying is clearly his skin is fair complexion. So that means it's got to be white supremacists he's bringing in. I mean, you didn't know that? No, no, he's the great liberator of white supremacists. uh, trolls everywhere. Well, that's so racist lady. Supremacists that are going to flood this platform. He's going under free speech as he suggests. Well, I'm not saying that we can't leave or we should leave because, because, because first of all, um, there are a number of black on this, uh, black planet, right? I got on black planet because you said you tweeted, the answer is black planet. This is the most unlikely comeback that I thought would happen.

55:15 Right, there's Black Panther, there's Isaac Hayes III, has a whole platform that pays Black creators, right? So there are a number of platforms. It's not like Black people are out here just tweeting and saying, we ain't gonna create our own, we're creating our own. And so we can feed that because where we go, is where people will go, you know, whether it's music or TV or all parts of the culture. So I don't think that we are like held hostage by Twitter, right? It's just the most popular black platform. But wherever we go will be the most popular. Yeah. Okay. So this is very interesting. I was unaware of Black Planet. I'm seeing it now. Oh, Black Planet. Oh, that's what maybe

56:03 My late 20s? Yeah, but there's a... it says right here, rebooting. Why reboot? Was it re-emergence? Yeah, why reboot? Black Planet now is rebooting because we recognize that this moment is an opportunity to come together. It would never happen because you can't take your blue check with you. Go ahead. Well, that was what I was going to ask. Intuitively, I'm like, nope, that's not going to work. I can't explain why. But is there... it feels to me like there's black Twitter works because of some certain confluence of features that make it work, and I think we could probably define what that is, the hashtag being a very important part of it. Is it possible at all in your professional opinion

56:52 As a person of color, I can't even say it with a straight face. I try to say it with a straight face. What do you think? Is it possible? I mean, first of all, I know many people have tried with, you know, certainly YouTube, you know, Oh Odyssey, they're paying black creators. Ultimately, it has to really It feels like has to be a grass roots. It has to be a thing that that just You can't build this type of thing and say oh This is what black people will need as far as I don't know why that is but it is like with tennis shoes Anybody can make a sneaker right you go but Nike will always be Nike because the brand that incident it holds and

57:39 And you can't, the blue check, that blue bird, for the people that's talking here for that class, having that blue check is them saying they're making it. That's the crowning achievement of them. And these two things that you didn't point out in that clip, she said we're going to become entertainment for white trolls. Her biggest fear is being ridiculed and this is why these people don't represent quote unquote black people because they want to be in a safe space where they can throw things over the wall but not get the pressure back. Where you know if you stood on facts instead of talking points

58:22 it wouldn't be an issue because you're saying your story or your narrative would be airtight. Okay, okay, so I just need to ask you a couple questions because I think I know the answer now. So without a doubt for Black Twitter, maybe for all Black American media communications, all inter- for black communications, because that's really what we're talking about. It's how black America has, you know, it's always been through gospel, it's been through blues, it's been through, you know, predominantly music through, you know, old spiritual, you know, the whole thing. There has to be, I believe, an element of danger for it to work.

59:06 And the danger can be on one hand, you know, we're gonna lynch you, sorry to use trauma-based entertainment, but then there's the digital lynching which is we kick you off of Twitter. Canceling. Canceling. So I believe that in order for the community, but it's the same with hip-hop. You know, it's just like you push the edge, you push the edge, you push the edge until, you know, so that you still are on the radio and you don't get banned from the radio. And do you think that that's true? Yeah, it has to be some kind of, and this is why these, and I speak specifically about the professional black Twitters, the super users, I think called power users. They don't understand, like you've been cradled by the establishment.

59:54 You know, you don't want you notice nobody wants to smoke with me and I'm not saying it like that because and people that think like me because we're based off facts and you'll get roasted. So it's like, you know, we want to stay in our little safe space right here, but we want to be provocative at the same time. It's this weird thing that they want to be safely provocative. Like, you know, you can't punch me back, put on the, you know, the kid gloves, but I can throw haymakers at you. And that's why you heard her say we'll become entertainment for them, but they don't want to they don't want a fair fight But she's not black Twitter. No, she is she see black Twitter. How can I explain it black Twitter is the accepted?

1:00:42 Blackness by the you know saying tech industry the technical techno political industry, okay? Right no what I'm saying is not gonna ever make it to black Twitter a DOS you saw what they did to them Did you see what I come in to come step up for a DOS? No, no, they said they were Trump. They were black mega and Russian bots, but Russian bots right that was that was the whole narrative and Okay, all right, all right, all right, all right, hold on, hold on, then back up now. So black Twitter, maybe the hashtag, okay, I think there's two different, because there's got to be a black Twitter, which is where I find Mo. I mean, that's there, right? Okay, I'll give you a perfect example. Black Lives Matter.

1:01:29 That's that's the ground people got it. Yeah, you see things that you're saying like this see actual true injustice And they'll put black hashtag black lives matter on it, but past our black lives matter ink is something totally different understood We're dealing with the inks out of black Twitter. This is like Twitter ink okay, so but what but in the beginning before I believe you know, we have to see how Black America influences the rest and Black America in its purest form was using Twitter in a novel way and got a lot going but then as is typical it was quickly captured because it turned into a safe space for the check marks.

1:02:09 Right, but it's still a battleground. They were actually elevated. Yes. Okay, this is your safe. We know you're a safe Negro if we give you this blue check. You know what I'm saying? That kind of thing. That's what that was, was especially when you got it came up through the Democrat. I mean, let me not say Democrat. What's the analogy for that? There must have been an analogy in the slave days for the safe Negro. I mean, that was the old, well, we call them overseer, but have you ever seen Life with Martin? Yes, of course. Yes. Remember how the black guy was trusted to have the gun? Yeah. The guard would unarm himself. Right. It's like here, here you got the gun. Now keep them in line. Right. Right. And he would tell him I'm not that nice boss and I'm not nice as boss is. That's kind of how black Twitter ink is. It's like if you go say something like right now, if you were to go say something on black Twitter about, you know what I'm saying, and I don't want to trigger anybody, about abortions right now,

1:03:06 the pushback will be so hard against you if you say anything against trans or I mean even to the point of like I don't think kids like Zaya Wade's situation I don't think you should kids to be transitioning are you you're not gonna they're gonna come for you they're gonna call you misogynist and that's why I said people like me will never be welcome there. Alright, just one more question where is black America communicating then? Not black Twitter but where is the real conversation going on? I told you YouTube gives you the best cross-section because you get you go all the way from the far to the far left and from Marxist to yeah you're saying to fascist almost to super modern to super traditional that you know and that's why

1:03:53 That's why people gravitate towards YouTube the way they do because I was confused it starts on Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter Black Twitter now known as Twitter way to go No, but it start the argument starts on Twitter and Then it goes to local news, then it comes to black YouTube for reactions. Right. This is, this is, and that's why I said when a meme makes it to local news, that's mean it's been successful. That's mean it's ready for the... So you had me confused earlier because I really thought, oh, okay, black Twitter is where black America really communicates. Now I understand what you're saying. That's what they want you to believe.

1:04:39 Yes, it works. It works. Let me see what the black folks are thinking. Hashtag Black Twitter. Oh, they're pro-whatever this is. And this is where the... you know that okay well black twitter black twitter is now malcolm nance going to ukraine i mean this that's what that's what's going on the cia going to help fight nazis yeah like i mean like i'm i'm shaping that in the net the media meme narrative you know that because that was how you would lay it out in the meme is right When did black people start being supportive of ex-CIA going to help Nazis fight? Right, I know it's great. Yeah, that'll get zero likes. But that's why shadow banning is so...

1:05:23 This is just saying just quickly touch on that topic because you think you're saying something but they put a and you it's like a dome around you. You're sitting here talking your head off but that is no way to actually seeing it. You don't know they're not seeing it. Originally we called that the bozo filter. And that's back in the day, way before you were born. On forums, you had a Bozo filter, so exactly that. Someone could be posting like crazy and saying all kinds of stuff and you just flip the Bozo filter on and no one would see it. So hopefully we understand that Black Twitter does not represent... Black Twitter represent whatever is acceptable politically. Got it. And socially. You know, by the, you know what I'm saying, by the council culture.

1:06:11 You know, and that's why with me, I say it again, I would never ever be allowed to give, no, be given the boost of the algorithm. No, this kind of message? Oh no. No, I mean that's, it's too, you can't, you can't box that in once you have people start thinking for themselves. It's like, no, that's very dangerous. Um, so let's go ahead and get to number 10. We wanted to know exactly how one becomes a member of Black Twitter. Are there rules or at least consistent practices? So I reached out to my friend Kiana Tipton for help. She has a master's degree in Twitter. Well, actually, my alma mater didn't quite offer a master's in Black Twitter, although sometimes I tell people I have a master's in Black Twitter and nobody's checked me on it. So, Black Twitter is not an actual space.

1:06:59 And it's also not a homogeneous group where everyone looks the same, everyone talks about the same things, and everyone cares about the same things. I think in order to participate in Black Twitter and to be a part of it, you have to have that cultural competency. Essentially, it mirrors in real life conversations that Black people are having. Oh, please tell me this is a white girl. Please, please tell me. Oh, she's so... that's too bad. I almost thought that was perfect. That would have been perfect. Listen to her. So some of those things are community, call and response, that is really common in Black language. And of course, there's humor. And I think both community and call and response lend itself to that humorous aspect. It's not all fun and games on Twitter. Black Twitter consistently uses hashtag campaigns to organize around a social or political cause.

1:07:49 Say Her Name, created in Sandra Bland's honor, highlights the often hidden plight of black women affected by political injustice or police brutality. Mainstream media's tendency to publicize a victim's most stereotypical photos after an unarmed black person is killed sparked If They Gunned Me Down and, of course, Black Lives Matter, which is now an international activist organization. Yeah, and if you see remember she will rise from the last show yep And who would they bring in the same one Oscar so white? Yeah, these things like said these are astro turf. I want people to be very clear These are the ones that somebody picks up the phone over calls over to Twitter a I need you to put some put some sauce on this one Okay, okay. Yes boss, and then they you're saying they let it be nobody's in Oscar so white you know and then

1:08:40 the way they stamp out other ones and label them as toxic. That kind of thing. It's control. Now, do you think that black America understands that this place is being controlled? What percent is all in and thinks this is groovy? Well, the average person is not on Twitter. I'll say that first of all, the average black person is not on Twitter. Right, but that's actually worse because they get the local news version and they just go with whatever's being told. Correct, but they have the reaction to it.

1:09:22 and see if it's something that they think like, okay, I'll give you a great example. Remember the Kente cloth? And the kneeling? Yeah. At first, the hashtag was like, okay, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Look at him slay, slay, slay. And then when it hit, it was like, this is crazy. This is no good. Right. They suppress that. They suppress the anti- All the anti hashtags about that. I'm sure they go to play clean up to wipe clean You know the you know, the original post just saying memory home for my edification from this clip call and response Okay, wow, that's hard to do And then of course the black humor is I feel like I can't keep up with that. I

1:10:15 Well, it's a lot of stuff is based in culture. Mm-hmm. You know saying so You might have lines from movies. Yeah It's not like I'll be back Oh Like, if somebody say, oh yeah, um... Well... They tens but I keep them clean though. Or my classic, damn Gina! Does that still work or is that... No, that's a... That's that's a good one. That's a boomer one. That's a boomer one. No, not really because the other one like what's up? That's still good. What's up? No, it's that's cringy. So I was gonna say that will be the catch line from the show. So everybody would know that one. But you understand if I say you ain't got no job, man, you're saying they know that oh, that's talking about Tommy.

1:11:08 Got it, got it, got it. This is the timing thing and it's also when you somebody say, say, can I get a hey? You're late with the hey. Then you're like, you're like a half a beat late. That's almost, that's almost like church though. Church is also like all kinds of callback stuff. Like, hold on a second. Yeah, I like it. That's exactly right. That's the interaction. You know, that's the, That's what makes it the living spirit of it. I don't know, people just bring that to the table. I don't care what it is.

1:11:45 We, just like I tell people all the time, like the turntable. When they sit down and made the turntable, they didn't make it for scratching. They didn't know that. Exactly. Exactly. You know what? Yes. We didn't make a turntable so we could scratch on. No, they was like, okay, here. And then somebody got a really nice turntable and it had, you know, the anti-reverse on it. And like, like, okay. Right. But, but, uh... You know, when Kanye first got the Roland 808 drum machine, he did shit with it that no one had heard either.

1:12:23 Right, you know now even even a sampler or the drum machine itself Yes, she was not meant to that was actually so if you didn't have a drummer you could set a beat Yeah, and you could play a good tar you would paint whatever to it until the drummer got there Yeah, and it was like no, we're gonna let me get that. Let me hold that for you That's what I that's our superpower is to take something and make it Make it do something that you haven't seen. TikTok, look at TikTok dances. These kind of things. This is where cultural appropriation and cultural vulturing comes from. You can have an appreciation for the culture, but when you come in and take it, and the funny thing is we have a, not that he's going on a tangent, but we say, okay, take that. We'll just create something else.

1:13:09 and I'm like okay. Well but when you say take it what do you mean? I mean it's when you mean so okay so white people are now doing the dance on TikTok that would be taking taking it? Yeah because they don't bring No, I know it's not the same, but you can't be mad about it. I mean, it's actually a really sincere form of flattery. Well, just to take it to music for a second, it's like when you have your favorite band, right? Like Nirvana, the people that were day one Nirvana fans, when they blew up and went

1:13:47 like nuclear, you know what I'm saying? Celebrity. They would have the same thing, like take it. I know you're going to make it commercial. I know you're going to take the, you know what I'm saying, ruin it. You know, you're going to corporatize it. So it's like, take it. Not like you're stealing something. You know what I'm saying? It's just like, here, you're like, no, you're like, like with all music. Like look at- But that's kind of my point is that- Yeah. When you say, well, then they take it. I'm just saying that's how culture works. I mean, and America is a beautiful, better place for it. I don't think that's something that needs to be paid back or, you know, look, you know, the turntable came from some white dudes in, you know, actually it came from white dude, Thomas Edison. You know, so it's building on top of each other. I'm about to trigger the pot father.

1:14:38 When somebody takes your invention and says, we can monetize it. No, that doesn't bother me that way. No, no, I'm saying like, you know it's like, it's not meant for that. Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. No, that's fair. But, but, it. Yeah, okay. You got me on that one. That's a very good analogy. That gives you something to think about. Because she pisses you off because it's not meant... When you hear somebody does a corporate podcast, you know, it's like, I know it makes you cringe. It's like... No, no, no, no, it's not. No, no, no. That's not... You had the right example. Okay. And the right example was...

1:15:17 Trying to monetize podcasting in all these crazy ways. That's the right example. Now for me, I think it's a very good example because I'm not mad, I just go, I just shake my head. Like, it's not gonna work. Good luck with that. And I think that's probably how it is. And what else do you say? I'll listen to you longer. You can't monetize the network. They never come talk to me. No. They never come talk to me. So that's like the guys that created something. It's like, they never come talk to me. Right, right. But just so you understand. That I don't feel like someone took something. I'm happy I'm pleased I'm just always a flabbergasted that no one ever comes to talk to me, but it's I'm not angry that I'm just saying that when it comes to culture and how it's created and how things are built on top of each other even if they stray completely from the original intent an idea I'm okay with that and

1:16:17 And I think that it enriches everybody and it's really good. And it does. I detected from you a little... Hey, you know, you're taking our stuff or it's cultural. It's almost like saying cultural appropriation. That's how it felt. Well, there is a cultural appropriation and there are cultural vultures because when you take something, that's why I use podcasting. The people that make these corporate podcasting platforms, they don't care anything about podcasters. They don't care anything about podcasting. It's like, how can we profitize this? And it's like it's not meant for that. It's like with Bitcoin, you know what I'm saying? Like when people come in and try to use it for a asset or a monetary vehicle, you know what I'm saying? Okay, okay. So we're talking about two different things. That's changing the use versus hip-hop and Eminem.

1:17:14 Eminem generally accepted because he respects the craft, but he's not from the culture per se, but he built on top of it, brought his own culture to it, and I think has enriched everybody in the process. So that to me is like... So if it's TikTok videos, I think that there are some Some people who do it with, there's a lot of people who do it with the same vigor, the same idea, and then there's a whole section that doesn't, that is just laughable. Well, it's some people that do things that are, it's not appreciation, it's more like a mockery. And that's where, that's that fine balance, you know, of how people can make certain movies. Like Quentin Tarantino, he's allowed to make certain movies because people believe that he does it in an artistic way.

1:18:06 where you're saying other people might not be able to get away with it. So, not to belabor the point, but that's, I think this is the crux of everything is, are you in it for the appreciation of it? Are you in it, you're saying, for a cash grab? And that goes for whatever, I mean, we have like YouTube content creators You know, it's just people that want to play the numbers. They don't really care what they talk about. They just whatever the latest story is, you know, I'm going to talk about it because this is what, you know, is good monetarily. I really like this because that to me, that's the beauty of value for value and the streaming streaming payments, because I want anybody to come up with any crazy idea from any culture and immediately have a monetization model built right in.

1:18:53 So that no one has to worry about someone, and because inherently I hope all the stuff is completely not at brand safe. That's the only good stuff. That's why I think it's perfect for people just to experiment. The next thing that comes up, we won't have to worry about, okay, well, how do we pay for it? Let's bring this conversation full circle, right? Everybody has a number. to sell out. I'm gonna just be honest with you, everybody has a number. Twitter was 44 billion. Like don't get it twisted, you know what I'm saying? They didn't want to sell, but Elon knew their number. And that's kind of like the same thing with, you know, that's why people get so mad at the corporations. Like, you gave him a number he couldn't resist. And that was the whole David Chappelle thing, like, they'll come buy me. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was said in jest, but

1:19:51 You know, when they put the 50 million on the table, he knew up front it was going to be bad when he signed it. But it's just like, but then luckily, you know, he came to his senses, you know, but that's, that's what they mean by, you know, taking something. When you put something on a table where even like with the Democrats, like we're talking about now, a lot of these people know better on black Twitter, but That check is good. They check you're saying is in and they go and spew the talking points that they do and the good example that we can get into. It's a throwback clip for show 18. This is joy read with Shereen Mitchell and this is just show you.

1:20:32 how they know better, but they'll do whatever they gotta do or stand for the bag. So it's the indication that they are someone who was born as a descendant in the United States, who's representing black America and has the vernacular and the language that people would believe is someone who's a part of our community, who's either debating about Camilla or debating about... Camilla. ...because that's who just announced. and trying to say we know who's the most, you know, who's black in America and making sure that they're, you know, sort of talking in this vernacular that makes it look like that they are in support. Yeah. I mean, I did see a huge uptick in bot activity when it came to, when Kamala Harris announced. It just dropped like a bomb. It just happened really quickly. And she was accused of being not

1:21:22 Not really black. Not a dealer. Not really black. And that kept going. You could see that happening. But actually, there was an uptick of those bots just before she was about to announce. So they were preparing for her announcement. Hey, Mo, just before you... I really love this show. I really appreciate it. Our conversation that we just had was one of the most open, honest, racial conversations I think I've ever heard myself. I really appreciate this. I do too, and that's why this you can't you can't make this in a lab or a boardroom. No, that's that's why we take an oath of poverty. Exactly, because that's the thing is and it's not for me I don't want to be controlled. And that just you're saying just to let it shine some light in that that was the whole thing with the shot with me

1:22:16 Like, no, you can't have that. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's certain parts of me, no, you can't have that. You know, and... It's belief in self and you heard that in the past clips with us, Tiffany Cross, it's like, where are we going to go? You understand? Like, what do you mean where are you going to go? Either you stay on the platform and you get crafty enough where you dip, duck, dodge, and dive. You know what I'm saying? The censorship. Or you understand, I'll make a stellar product where, you know what I'm saying, people will just be naturally gravitating and love to share it. Or you go build your own. But that's the thing. They want to be handed something, but with that comes a price. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so just getting back to this clip, they know better. If they're truly tapped in, and Joy Reed enjoys black Twitter and the support it gives, you know what I'm saying, it hurt.

1:23:13 If they knew like they said they knew, they would understand, okay, Kamala seems like an Obama 2.0 and Obama didn't really do anything for us. So that's maybe why some black people are upset with her. But just to come out and say, oh no, it's Russian bots. That's because they were told to say that. MSNBC signs her check to tell her to say, oh, you know what? We're going to sign and push this Russian bot. I am extremely grateful to Joy Reid Because this very clip is what brought Adam and Mo together. Right. Because I was struggling with, what is this, bots and descendants of slavery? And I was trying to figure it out. And I was talking about it with John. You know, it's like, I love John, but he's not going to help me with this. And then that's when you reached out to me. And the fact that you picked up on the hashtag DOS. Yeah.

1:24:10 See that was the, and it was like no this is refined because we're talking about descendants of American slavery. Right. It's more, see they're okay with DAS. Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I reached you. It's like the ADAS though, that's problematic because that fractured the whole Caribbean and African block. Right, right, right. You know that we're building in and that's where, that goes to show you the Twitter filter right there. It's because you got DAS but you didn't get ADAS. Yep. And by the way, if you went and got it from the mainstream media such as this, you'd be like, oh, they're Russian bots. Well, that's what I smelled it right away. I'm like, nah, something's going on here. What is this Russian bot shit with ADOS? And yeah, it was good. But interestingly, you reached out, but also Antonio Moore, the hashtag ADOS people. Right. Very interesting. And the thing was with them, I would just say, this is my critique of the ADOS

1:25:07 that downvoting, that didn't meet the litmus test of the people. See, this is the power of like when you have a true callback, you know, that kind of thing, or you listen back to what the sentiment is, you would say, okay, this downvote thing, that was dumb. Like, you know what I'm saying? That just admit to it and get, but if you stand on it, it's like, well, it's not like you're still trying to get us to vote. And we don't have nothing tangible on the table. So that's just going to show you even organic hashtag and run into trouble if you don't stay true to the message. Okay, so let's go ahead and get to, let's go ahead and play 13 and then you're saying, cause I want you to,

1:25:53 I think it's important to hear them being negative toward things that can only be seen as positive. Because if we know, as we've seen, that the ones who are the most vulnerable are the ones who are the most vulnerable. valuable to the Democratic Party is black women. We have identified at least five existing campaigns that are focused on getting black people to do only one thing, not vote for the Democrats. And can you name one of those five campaigns? I mean, we put up from the report that you're saying that there's a conversation about reparations that has to do with it. There's a criminal justice conversation. There's an immigration... So, reparations... Go on.

1:26:32 reparations, immigration, and anything that has to do with the criminal justice system. So the reason that the targeting of Kamala around being a cop is important is because anything that hinges on criminal justice becomes a divisive issue. Very quickly, we're out of time, but how can people tell the difference between the real genuine thing of Black Lives Matter and the ones that are just designed to make you not vote? How do you even tell? You tell right away by the language that they use most of the time, but if you see anyone who says basically tangibles or you're not getting our vote without us getting something back, you should start to pause and take a better look at what they're saying. Better look at those accounts and seeing what they're saying. Come on, Vladimir Mo.

1:27:23 I know you're a Russian bot, these are things you say. If you want some for your vote, you're a bot. Just imagine. I love that. That's you. That's you. They just described you. Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. But I couldn't imagine if they say they're tapping into the sentiment of other people like they say they are to say if it says tangibles, that's probably a bot. That's probably a bot. Yeah. That's not real. Or we want something for our vote. No, no, no, that can't be. That can't be a real black person. No. Imagine the mental gymnastics you have to do to make that work for you in your mind. So speaking of that, we can go now to the second set of clips I found from the Root, and this is how Black Twitter changed the world. Think back on your favorite Twitter moments of the past decade. I got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes.

1:28:20 What do they all have in common? Melanin! Today's baggage? Black Twitter. Where do politics, memes, black culture and activism come together online? You guessed it. Black Twitter. Black Twitter is Twitter. It's a congregation. A community. Chuch. Heck, I'd argue that Black Twitter is the most poppin' space on the internet. But what kind of legacy has it created? Now where can I find someone who's an expert in all things Black Twitter? Yaddy!

1:29:05 Professor Meredith N. Clark's pretty much a Black Twitterologist. When people try to juxtapose Black Twitter versus, let's say, mainstream Twitter or just Twitter, the assumption that they're making is that white users and the people who created Twitter are the default. And so whatever white users are doing, that is mainstream or regular Twitter. And we know that that just isn't so. Black Twitter makes Twitter what it is. It is what drives the pippy conversations. Hmm. I'd love to see numbers. I'd love to, because I think that there's also a Latino Twitter, a French Twitter, a German Twitter. I mean, there's all kinds of Twitters that we don't see, which are segregated. Well, see, here's the thing. Every one of those groups you named,

1:29:58 are equally distributed across the left-right political spectrum. Or at least. Gotcha. You're saying 30-70, 60-40, that kind of split. The fact that, and this is where we're saying black people, the fact that it's a code, you know what I'm saying? It's an unwritten code of how, you know, okay, You know, we'd look out for each other, that kind of thing. And then you factor that in with that code has been hijacked and weaponized and also politicized. Let's say if you don't agree with this, if you don't like Obama, if you don't like, you know, whatever, fill in the blank, then you ain't black. Like the Joe Biden thing. Vote for me, you ain't black. So that's why I think it's more stringent. And then the fact that it's manufactured to be that way.

1:30:51 Because just like my whole point of Twitter itself being AP Black Twitter is the black journalism. It's the black AP. Yeah, so That's how they and therefore a very influential got it. Yep makes it is not only influential to 2022 and 2024 see because they said that black Twitter is the most impactful or whatever words you use on the internet. No, you black YouTube is. I'm telling you because you get a far more balanced distribution and you find that you're on sides with other people saying with people that you might not on certain topics but other topics you can hear from them. Right, it's a whole different system. It just works completely differently.

1:31:42 Yet they have a common algo of recommending and that works really well. Okay, I understand. I'm down with it. Yep, I got it. And so black Twitter is also the most manipulated part of Twitter. Oh, it's, man, it's a refined narrative. And I'm going to give you an example of these three. We might not have to listen to all three, but I just want to hear you see how an example of a rogue hashtag and how it's handled by Black Twitter. And this is went back, going back to 53, show 53. And this was the hashtag blame Black men. Also, I want to talk about Black men today.

1:32:22 Hi, Lurie. Hi. I love black. I'm married to a lovely one. But my favorite topic. Hold on some of my best friend of black men, friends, black. Jamel Hill tweeted something out. And I think it's time for us to have a conversation. We've been I've been nibbling around the edges of this conversation. We're gonna have it today. So Jamel Hill. She said, she tweeted this yesterday. I've increasingly found that black men, oh, excuse me. I've increasingly found that many black men just want better access to patriarchy. They don't actually want it dismantled. And when I saw that tweet trending and she was trending, I was, I said to myself, is this helpful? That's the first thing I said. Why, why, why, why, why? And then that started a blame black men.

1:33:16 Hashtag. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I remember this show. You bet. And that was after the whole this was the show. Fifty three was twenty twenty vision. And this was around the whole ice cube thing. You know, they blamed us for everything because on one side, you know, the mainstream media was saying, oh, black, they gave us Democratic Party. And the only thing they can really say and ruin it for us is the patriarchy loving black men. Right. these misogynists and just once again they have his own brand of misogyny called misogyny war. So it's like misogyny and the war mixed together so black misogyny is what it represents. But as I was processing it I said that this narrative

1:34:05 Bolstered by the Ice Cube's 50 Cent P Diddy conversations has and there have been several women, I'm not, you know, gonna get into those names saying these. Is that the only black man she knows? No, that was the ones that, no, no, that was the defectors. Remember that that's the ones that were pushing the Trump's tax cut. Ice Cube was like, let's go talk to Trump about, see what I'm saying, see what, you know, the platinum plan had. Oh, yes, the platinum plan. Oh man, that was so hilarious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 50 cents, step down the line and say, I'm not paying 60-something percent of taxes. Joe Biden tripping, that kind of thing. So this is why she's laying their names out. Right. I remember now. Yes, I remember. I just remember Trump's platinum plan. That was fantastic. How hilarious was that?

1:34:57 Yeah, great marketer Women I'm not you know gonna get into those names saying these things about black men in particular I'm saying to myself. Why is this happening? Why are you doing this? Why now why and you know, why was it necessary? So apparently she was having some conversations with somebody and then went to the Twitter sphere and I'm saying at some point we're gonna have to have Twitter discipline all things Permissible all things are not beneficial. This was not beneficial and here's what it does because let me just be 100% clear black men are important Black women are important all black people are important, you know Like it's it's silly for us to have these Conflicts and they're not real. So let me just give you the real and

1:35:51 Here's the real. The real deal is there's no war between black men and black women. There seems to be on social media a very, very small, minute, very loud faction on both sides doing this thing. Now, is it beneficial? No, it's not. As a matter of fact, it is detrimental to the things that we want to get done. Ooh, stop doing that. And that's to get Biden elected. Just to get people for things we want. And this is why she's so Torn up over this is cuz like don't you see we need all the votes combined? You know these wedges is gonna ruin it for you know the Joe Biden to get less that you're hearing this so that's the spectrum that she's looking through to say There is a gender war no, no no doubt about it, and it's not just only in black people saying with black people But it's far more impactful I would say

1:36:54 Because when you factor in poverty, then you factor in the family court system how it leans heavily. Well this goes back to no man about the house. Exactly. But for some odd reason, no actually no, we've dealt with the black man. We just we kill him and then martyred the black man. Now everything's the white man's fault. But at the same time They have to do things like this. They have to do things like Joy Ann Reid, that some white man somewhere is telling them what to say. Yes, of course. And it's like, okay, so, and this is what go back to the point about like taking, taking from us. This is the, this is the, I'm going to say it and the people might get mad at me. I don't care. You can't cancel me. A lot of people feel like the white power structure have taken our women.

1:37:49 Oh, I understand that. The same way we say about taking our culture, they have taken our... and let me flesh that out. When you look at the Supreme Court justice, when you look at Kamala Harris, when you listen to these women talking, Joyanne Reed, you will give the perception that they're going to side with white supremacy, the real white supremacy, the one world government, white supremacy over their own men. And we should just shut up and like, okay, I'm gonna do what Master tell me to do and you just shut up and be okay with it. And a lot of men like, no.

1:38:28 I'd rather be alone. And this is the whole root of the black gender war. Now I can't speak for any other gender war. I mean, I know there's some commonalities, but... So let me play this back to you. So you just mentioned a whole bunch of black women who are not ADOS. So when you say taking our women, do you mean taking the identity of the women? Or literally take... Exactly. Okay, the identity. That's what it's all about. I got it. Yeah, so so by saying Kamala Joy read The British names It's like yeah, you're you're from island, you know from Caribbean descent not exactly the same thing yet. You're representing a DOS women exactly got it. Okay, that's 100% true and

1:39:17 And the ideas that come with that. I mean like, because there's a set of ideas that black men shut up, get to the back, you know. Well also by that logic they took the presidency from you. Yes. Because Obama was not Ados. Exactly. Still isn't to this day. It's not gonna change. And he's still the president. It's not who we are! So I guess let's go ahead and wrap up this last clip and then we can thank some people. Everybody's blaming black men for Trump, right? I'm gonna give you the actual numbers. Here are the numbers. Black men with college degrees, 78%

1:39:57 percent of black men with college degrees voted for Hillary Clinton. Hillary R Clinton, 78 percent. Larrie, I'm not good at math. Is that like the vast majority of black men with college degrees? Overwhelming and vast majority. All right. Oh, black men with no college degrees. 82 percent of black men without college degrees voted for Hillary Rodham Clinton. 11 percent voted for Trump. 16% of black men with college degrees, which I think is interesting. That's a whole other conversation that we should have at some point too, but they're different conversations. And we're doing this lumping in, like all black men. No, no, matter of fact, 78% with degrees voted for Hillary, 82% without degrees voted for Hillary.

1:40:48 Now, in juxtaposition of black women, 91% of black women, 91% of black women with college degrees, 6% of those same black women voted for Trump. So let's just, you know, I don't know who y'all are, you know, and I want to shame you, woman with a college degree, 6% of you voted for Donald Trump. But yes, it's your right, you know, it's your right. You know, we are free people. We're free to do dumb things. Are we? Are we? But don't you dare do that again. Are we free people? Is anybody free Moe? Is any people free? Yeah, we are. And if you don't know what's gonna happen, it's the producers. That's right, that's right, that's right, exactly. First, the white man and the black man have to be able to sit down at the same table. The white man has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of that Negro. And the so-called Negro has to feel free to speak his mind without hurting the feelings of the white man. Then they can bring the issues that are under the rug out on top of the table and take an intelligent approach to get the problem solved. That's the only way that they'll ever do it.

1:53:25 and the manipulation and how powerful it is, certainly what it did with Black Lives, hashtag Black Lives Matter, Inc. I wonder if Elon Musk understands that mechanism. Yes, he understands how powerful it is. Yes, I'm sure he sees how it drove Black Lives Matter. But I'm not sure if he completely understands the whole mechanism as we just discussed in the last two hours. I don't think so, actually. I don't think a lot of people do it. Not just to toot our horns, but I think it's when you get caught in the echo chamber, you believe black Twitter is black, representing a representative of black. Exactly. Exactly.

1:54:14 And then you hear people like this guy. So this is a power user, Eli Mistal. Are you familiar with him? Name rings a bell, but no. I'll give you an image. A black guy with a big white afro. Oh, that guy. Oh yeah, MSNBC. Oh, I love to hate that guy. He's a hate watch. Yeah, so... It's a total hate watch. And you... Number 20, I can't even get it out. Go ahead, 20. My next guest has committed to making a few changes over the next 50 weeks. He's listed his goals for all to see, but the one that got me listening is the last one. He says he's going to avoid Twitter fights with white people he doesn't respect over issues that they don't understand. And my friend is here to talk about that with us today. Welcome back to Ellie Mistel, Justice Correspondent for the Nation and Social Media Sage.

1:55:09 I would love for you to just start off by, you know, as one of the most prolific voices, I believe, on social media, talk to us about your strategy for using those platforms to have conversations. Yeah, it's going so poorly for me in my attempts to keep my blood pressure down from engaging with these fools on social media. But let's start at the beginning, right? Like, why do I do this at all? And a big part of the reason why I am vociferous and bombastic and always kind of ready to throw down and throw hands on social media

1:55:45 is because I have a platform and thus, I believe, a duty to do it. There are a lot of people who agree with me, there are a lot of black people especially in professional environments who cannot I cannot say the kinds of things that I can say to these people because they have to worry about their job, they have to worry about their paper, they have to worry about the boss that might be listening, looking over their shoulder. There are lots of good reasons why lots of smart black people, smart lawyer type black people cannot go all in on these people. I can't. Huh, this guy. Smart, dedicated. This guy.

1:56:30 has very little background. I mean, Harvard Law... And very little backbone while you're there. I mean... Yes, but it's really interesting. Where is this guy from? And he fell out... One of those other people fell out the sky. Well, his wiki page reads like, interestingly enough, a spook. I mean, it doesn't even have where he grew up. I mean, they're always trying to get that balance right. Him and Malcolm, you mentioned his name before. Malcolm Nance. Malcolm Nance, they showed up about the same time. And he's like being pushed as the authority of the Constitution. Yeah, which he thinks is trash. Yeah, his book is goggles curry. He thinks his book is...

1:57:24 Like, so he's on the front of his book cover and he has this big white afro. It looks like a toadstool off of Mario Brothers. And yeah, I'm roasting him, but the simple fact is he goes out here like he represents all black men. You know where he's from? You know where he's from? Where he was born? Where? Where do you think? Quantico. Haiti. See? That's that. If anybody realize, and this is no distance and not ADOS, non-foundational black people in America, because we have a lot, way more allies than detractors. But do we see an over-representation of, in the media, of non-ADOS, non-foundational black? Yes, yes, of course we do. And that's because they either don't... When I was saying about Joy and Reed and the other clips, there's something inside of me

1:58:23 that wouldn't allow me to say those things and portray black people in that way, knowing how they were done with COINTELPRO, knowing how the Panthers were done, you know, putting aside how this Panther was put together, but just talking about the media, how they were illustrated in the media. But I think they lack that in some way. Yes. Well, they're phonies. They're just phonies. They're imposters. And you have this guy coming up here, like he represents, like I said, black people and he goes on black Twitter. But if you notice, he was very specific and even saying, oh, the professional. No, this is that bullet. This is that bullet that's going to pull you away. Yes, yes. Here's the question though. So I'm looking at older pictures.

1:59:11 This white fro is a new deal for him. It is, and I'm gonna go to that. I'm gonna continue with the roast. I have learned so much about black. I'm so proud of myself. A white-headed black man is often seen as less threatening. Uncle Ben. Benson, how about Benson? Benson. Yeah, that's all white. He has no facial hair, no, hence, no, nothing a semblance of masculinity. And I'm not, like I said, he put himself in this position to say he speaks for me. So this is my critique of somebody that said they speak for me. No, you don't speak for me.

1:59:57 And I don't speak for all black men. That's why I always say these are my, this is, I speak for myself. Now, are there people that think like me? Yes. But I don't go out there and say all black men think this and all black, no. But he does that and he's brought in to do that. And he said some very, use their term, problematic things about black men. So this is where this is coming from. So, cause when you start having, it's kind of like when you have a person of that group go out and criticize that group, it holds more weight. And that's why they're using him, but he does not, you know, like I said, not very, that white Afro is very non-threatening. Purposeful. Right. So let's go ahead and get into 21. My starting point for a clapback, I should say. Is there something that I can say or do or point out here that other people

2:00:53 You know are gonna you know are gonna agree with one out there to be said But I'm one of the only people that can say it kind of correctly and if that's bar is crossed I am happy to kind of get in there get into the weeds get into the muck and throw down You know they say that you know you wrestle with the pig don't wrestle the pig because you're both gonna get dirty Yeah, whatever. I take shower Alright, like I don't mind getting dirty if that's what it takes to push the point across. Wow, this is so offensive Now that we know this guy's from Haiti. He's she's like, oh, you know, oh, yeah. It's just as bad for me, bro

2:01:32 Now you see what I'm saying, they take our stuff. And did he take Black America's favorite cleaning product and appropriate that too? What's that? He said Shout. Oh yeah, yeah. But wait a minute, isn't it Tide? Well, Shout is what you put on the really tough stains. So he's appropriating everything. I mean, it's one thing to use it because that's where how I learned to wash from my black roommate in college, right? But you're not gonna virtue signal with that if you're from Haiti Everything about them is learned through pop culture. Yeah, but that's why it's over. It's not rooted in anything It's not a no the the it's certain things you can say and it's just that it's it's rude It's a lived experience

2:02:27 And that's why you can tell the authentic. version of it against you know the manufactured version of it. Yeah this guy has not lived the shouted out life. Right, like he does his own laundry. You know what I'm saying? Come on, come on. I'm gonna continue with the clip. I'm sorry. Hold on, hold on. Let me say this right quick because this is on the BNC, the Black News Channel which is now defunct. Yeah. And that just goes to show you that you can't, you can bring in your Charles Blows, you can bring in your Mark Lamont Hills. It's It's not gonna work. These people don't speak. They don't have... They have... It's kind of like when people buy Jordans, but they don't know how to put... do the laces. You know what I'm saying? It's like... You can have the shoes, but you don't know how to rock them right. And they just don't know how to rock it right. And it shows.

2:03:17 Well, you know you you do all with a lot of dogs But I gotta say I don't think you get up with fleas and I actually appreciate you taking one for the team and being out there cuz you say a lot of stuff that I wish that I would say and I don't even know why I just don't I would love for you to tell us some Some of the, you know, craziest fights that you are having on social media right now that are really meaningful, you're engaging in them because you really see an opportunity to move the conversation or at least to lead people up in education. Oh my goodness! So this, so he's the warrior, now I get it. That's what he does? He does that all day professionally on Twitter? But that's the thing,

2:03:57 The irony of it is like all Trump does with Twitter, or 45 Savage does with Twitter throws, but they want scouts. This is the point of it. Don't poo-poo it. There's more. yeah look i'd i'd by focus on the courts and so i get all lot of i get a lot of people who are kind of from that world to have some legal training who simply are used to having to to hear what the courts look like and how they sound like from the perspective of a black person and they show up on my feet with like concerns cannot not understanding that i'm an expert in this that i've been doing this for ten years but i

2:04:43 Then I'm black? That's a power user right there. So in this next clip you said it and that's why I told you goggles because you're gonna hear him try to launch a meme or launch a hashtag. What you just said was him trying to launch a hashtag and it failed. So let's go ahead and listen to it. I want to hear your opinion on the other side. I live in Florida, so I'm like on ground zero of where all of this is happening. I'm out of my mind about the bills banning conversations about race and ethnicity and LGBTQ, just even mentioning gender identity in primary schools.

2:05:29 Some will say, okay, so are you arguing for throwing out the Constitution? Should the Constitution be thrown out? What do we do? Is it a living document? Or is it a sacred document? It's certainly not sacred, alright? Let's start there. The Constitution is kind of trash. His ancestors spoke French, ya phony.

2:06:12 My grandpa used to say, ain't no taxation without representation from NASA. Like that's not what happened. This document was written without the consent of black and brown people in this country and without the consent of women in this country. And I say that that is the starting point. the very least we can do is ignore what those slavers and colonists and misogynists thought and interpret the Constitution in a way that makes sense for our modern world. That's the starting line. Do you want to rewrite it? I could, right? I could rewrite parts of it in a tweet, right? Like how about popular election for the president,

2:06:50 People vote, not land. That's not even in there, is it? I'm saying if you took what was in there and I was rewriting it, we could do it in a tweet, right? Yeah, yeah. Term limits for Supreme Court justices. And how about no states' rights when it comes to health care, elections, policing, and guns? Right. It's just better. That's just better, and you can do that in a tweet. Oh my. That whole riff was fantastic. And he was trying to meme. He was trying to launch words. Constitution is trash. Kind of trash. Kind of trash, yeah. That's, that's, these are how they try to launch these hashtags. That way somebody's like, oh, Constitution trash, that's kind of trash. You know, these guys, they'll have different variations and whichever one people just kind of latch on to, this is how it works. And he was trying to make that happen. But you can't... It's not, it's, I know his message, he's not a creative hashtag.

2:07:47 No, I mean, and this is what people don't understand. Because he's not really black. He doesn't have the groove, doesn't have the vibe, he doesn't know how to do that. It's the time that it comes with, and the fact that when you say, get rid of the Constitution, whoa, you know what I'm saying, now you're talking about getting rid of the First Amendment. Now you're talking about getting rid of the Second Amendment. Now you're saying, whoa, now what are we playing by? And you notice how he had to do the black and brown, the woman. He had to hit, this is that coalition. They have to always check those boxes. He didn't do LGBTQ though. He screwed that up. Well, but you saw, what's her name? No, yeah. Ana Navarro. Yeah. She threw it in there. She checked it for him. So she's like, okay. I got it. I got you. I got you, bro. I got you. You can run with the mammy shit. I got this one. Wow. Right.

2:08:44 So this is how they try to do it and now this is where the second part comes in and why I felt that the whole Elon Musk thing is a big problem for a certain group of people. I want people to pay attention to the two timelines that we're going here. Elon Musk by Twitter and then all of a sudden Obama comes with the disinformation governance board. This is so interesting that you bring this up Mo again. I love you for this. Do you mind if I just tell you that I noticed the exact same thing? And there was one extra piece. It was Obama showing up, it was the disinformation board, and by the way he showed up at the cyber...

2:09:25 Stanford Cyber Policy Institute where he spoke for that hour and there was also another Brookings Institution piece about podcasting and it was weird because you know we've already seen these, oh podcasting has to be moderated, it's dangerous, this is the whole reason for podcasting 2.0 is because I knew this was coming. And I'm like, wait a minute, why are they doing this piece again? And so Dave Jones and I are going through it on the board meeting for Podcasting 2.0, and I start clicking on some of the links, like, oh, oh my God, it's all about banning and disinformation and how disinformation kills people, the exact words that Obama used. And so my, kind of the punchline is,

2:10:12 They set up this whole thing with all these different messages of disinformation. They bring out Obama for the disinformation, and then they choose this Nina Jankowicz, who was so obviously mockable for so many things. It was just like, wow, you put a lot of effort into bringing in this candidate who is there because her specialty is, wait for it, Russian. And and Ukrainian so you know everything will that that is uncomfortable is my opinion through this governance board Will be run through the lens of Russian disinformation And the thing was I've been chapping at the bit because we had to postpone the show from last week Mm-hmm. I saw this link did all these clips except for a few to obviously at it later This is like 90% of the show because I saw it coming. I was like oh I

2:11:04 Elon buys Twitter, they have to go governmental. Yes. They can't control him and that's why he bought it. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, okay. I'm gonna blow your mind now. Okay, please. I'm gonna blow your mind. I'm gonna blow your mind. This is a clip that I'm gonna play on tomorrow's No Agenda show and it's from 2016. We played this on no agenda and this was Obama And I think it was before the election. I'm Not sure. Yeah, I think was before the election listen to this have to rebuild Within this wild wild west of information flow some sort of curating function that people agree to

2:11:55 You know I use the analogy in politics it used to be there were three television stations and Walter Cronkite's on there and Not everybody agreed, and there were always outliers who thought that it was all propaganda, and we didn't really land on the moon and Elvis is still alive and so forth but generally that was in you know the the papers that you bought in the supermarket right as you were checking out and and generally people trusted a basic body of information. It wasn't always as democratic as it should have been and Zoe is exactly right that, for example, on something like climate change we've actually been doing some interesting initiatives where we're essentially deputizing citizens with

2:12:43 handheld technologies to start recording information that then gets pooled, they're becoming scientists without getting the PhD. And we can do that in a lot of other fields as well. But there has to be, I think, some sort of way in which we can sort through information that passes some basic truthiness tests. And those that we have to discard because they just don't have any basis in anything that's actually happening in the world. And that's hard to do. But I think it's going to be necessary, it's going to be possible. I think the answer is obviously not censorship, but it's creating places where people can say this is reliable.

2:13:35 And I'm still able to argue about, safely, about facts and what we should do about it while still not just making stuff up. So, to me, what Musk is doing and what Obama is describing here in 2016 is the same thing. See, and it doesn't really matter, the outcome is the same. Whether Musk is the shill or whether he's sincere, The truthiness test is coming through regulations. I think he's the opposition to what Obama's trying to do because you have two schools of thought. Should corporations own it and like the owners of those companies or should the government control it? So this is where I think they part ways. Now, like we talked about in the last show, when they build these systems, anybody will be able to wield the power of it.

2:14:39 But it's about who's going to have that power. Is it the, you know, is it the, you know, the boards and the CEOs or is the government coming in and telling you what you can say and how you can say it on your platforms? Well, the government is not just the US government. So the European Union government has already stated their case that Elon will adhere to them or he will not operate in the European Union. and in the United States and globally ESG scores dictates what companies do. So they will do all they will if he's if he's not playing on their team They will annihilate him so Twitter and me get let me get this straight cuz I mean I have few questions about this deal so Twitter will no longer be publicly traded when it goes through how does that work? I mean if he owns it yeah all the shares Are bought by Elon and so everyone everyone gets

2:15:37 $54.20 a share. And then he takes it, he delists it, takes out the stock market. It's no longer a public company, so he can do whatever he wants. So does ESG really have an impact on you then? I believe so. Obviously, he can be delisted. Taxation, there's many different ways that that's going to play. Look, you can't de-platform me because I am the platform. You know what I'm saying? I'm fascinated by this because this is letting your balls hang. I bought the building. I'm just seeing it differently. What I see is

2:16:18 When you said he said op I was almost gonna agree. I think he's the operator. I think he's No, I think he's the opera. I know what you think and and I just disagree We're looking at the same set of information the same set of facts and coming away with two totally different I mean which is Same same result same result, but it's the same result either way Twitter is going to be regulated. And Obama's been out here for over a month pushing this. That Stanford wasn't the first speech.

2:16:58 I have the first instance, we're going to get to that. This is the local news talking about the disinformation governance board in Sioux City. The Department of Homeland Security tonight is taking on dangerous disinformation. They've created a new board dedicated specifically to tackling that issue, but some lawmakers are raising concerns. Hannah Brandt explains why. The government is launching a new effort. To prevent disinformation and misinformation from traveling around the country in a range of communities. I'm not sure who opposes that effort. It turns out some lawmakers do. They want to police the speech of American citizens. It is absolutely insane.

2:17:38 The Department of Homeland Security insists their new disinformation governance board is meant to combat dangerous misinformation. Disinformation that imperils the safety and security of our homeland. The board is brand new, so exactly how they'll do that is unclear. But many Republicans are sounding the alarm bells and even comparing it to the Ministry of Truth from the dystopian novel 1984. This is nothing more than a blatant attempt to install a Ministry of Truth in order to push Biden's propaganda. Congressman Andrew Clyde calls the board unconstitutional and Senator Marsha Blackburn says it's censorship. They're going to say we're going to step in here and we are going to take control because there are some things we want you to know

2:18:23 and there are some things we don't. The Biden administration argues there's a major need to combat the lies and conspiracies that mislead people and sow division. There has been a range of disinfo out there about a range of topics, I mean including COVID for example and also elections and eligibility. But Senator Josh Hawley wants the board to be dissolved. Just because you disagree with your opponent doesn't mean it's disinformation. In Washington, I'm Hannah Brandt. Yeah, that was, you know, that's the type of piece that everyone gets the same copy for, goes to all the local stations. And that could very well come from AP, you're right in there. And by the way, Mo, we're coming to different conclusions just for, you know, different reasons. I would love to see Twitter be freed and for it to work and become the cesspool that it can. It'd be great.

2:19:16 and it would be that would be hilarious. It's great for business. Yeah, but it's yes. That's not moral. This is not. Yeah, yeah. It's great for business. This is not Elon Musk coming, we're saying through with his bulletproof Tesla. You're saying to save Twitter. No, this is about who controls the way the company country goes. Well, company, I mean, that was almost a 40 year slip. Who controls the way the company goes? Does it go with the corporation calling the shots or the government calling the shots? And I think I think what Elon Musk did, the way he did it, to say, I can buy something that's not for sale, that's very threatening to the government. But you know what, again, this is something that just doesn't fit with me. Twitter has been for sale for a long time.

2:20:02 For a long time. To who? To who? Anybody. Anybody. Google, Facebook, Amazon. That's all the same side. Why would I buy more of what I already got? You know what I'm saying? That's how they look at it. No, no, no. In my eyes. It was just in my eyes. Facebook, a better example, Facebook is incredibly political. Why would they not want to control that? Why would they not tell me why? Would the people who control the political messaging on Facebook not want to add Twitter to their to their portfolio? The way I see is this they all were asleep because it's like nope nobody with different views will buy it So we don't have to worry about buying it

2:20:51 And then you have this guy come in and says, it's like a robber baron kind of thing. It's the same way that Rockefellers will operate, right? It's like, we're gonna buy all the train tracks. You know, we're not gonna buy the train tracks, we're gonna buy the steel company. By the way, Dvorak is also on your side of this argument. Okay, well I'm in good company then. Yeah, that's right. An even older white man, go for it. I tell you who, the guy from Billions, you know, that's my guy. Prince? Michael Prince? No, no, the daddy.

2:21:31 Charles Senior. That's my kind of guy right there. I'm glad he stayed on throughout the new series. Him and WAGs keep it real. But once again, that's how wokeness ruins things. Just a quick aside. I find this interesting. Because CNN, this is Dana Bash, and this is her talking to Alejandro Mayorkas? Yes. Listen to her tone. It's getting weird out here, folks. That's all I gotta say. Let's talk about a different topic, which is what you are calling, your department is calling the disinformation governance board. You unveiled that this week. Republicans are calling it Orwellian.

2:22:19 and comparing it to the Ministry of Truth in the novel 1984. Can you clarify what exactly is this? What exactly will this disinformation governance board do? Will it monitor American citizens? Dan, I'm very pleased to do so. It's clear. I mean, those criticisms are precisely the opposite of what this small working group within the Department of Homeland Security will do. And I think we probably could have done a better job of communicating what it does and does not do. The fact is that disinformation that creates a threat

2:22:59 to the security of the homeland is our responsibility to address. And this department has been addressing it for years, throughout the years of the prior administration and an ongoing basis. Disinformation from Russia, China. Right. We know the problems, but it's still not clear to me how this governance board will act. What will it do? So what it does is it works to ensure that the way in which we address threats The connectivity between threats and acts of violence are addressed without infringing on free speech, protecting civil rights and civil liberties, the right of privacy. Oh, okay. I can't wait to see how... He didn't actually explain how they do it. No, that's what's called craft secrets and trade secrets. Trade secrets, yes. Sources and methods. Sources and methods, Mo. I'll tell you how, but isn't this a weird tone from CNN who's been

2:23:58 pretty much the governmental lapdog up until this point. You mean that they're changing tune a little bit and becoming a little more adversarial? Yeah, because I mean, especially Dana Bash, you know, she's all in for whatever it is. And you would think like, this is anti Well, yeah, but yeah, maybe. You have more? Maybe, maybe it convinces me more in the next piece. Let's go to the second piece. And the board, this working group, internal working group, will draw from best practices and communicate those best practices to the operators because the board does not have operational authority. Will American citizens be monitored? Operators?

2:24:40 Guarantee that. So what we do, we in the Department of Homeland Security don't monitor American citizens. You don't, but will this board change that? No, no, no. The board does not have any operational authority or capability. What it will do is gather together best practices in addressing the threat of disinformation from foreign state adversaries, from the cartels, and disseminate those best practices to the operators that have been executing and addressing this threat for years. Republicans are criticizing your decision, the administration's decision to choose Nina Jankowicz to lead this disinformation board. They say she is not somebody who is neutral.

2:25:25 your response. gathers together best practices, makes sure that our work is coordinated, consistent with those best practices, that we're safeguarding the right of free speech, that we're safeguarding civil liberties, I think is an extraordinarily important endeavor.

2:26:03 No, Dana Bash is playing along. I think she's playing controlled opposition here. Once again, I see it. This is my... But let me tell you why I feel that. When he said not once but three times, the operators, we give that to the operators. No follow-up, no question, who is that? Who are the operators? They've been doing this for decades. What do they do? Is that FBI? NSA, is that local police, is that Twitter themselves? She wasn't asking that. She was, in my opinion, she was throwing up the opposition, giving him softballs to address them with non-answers. And she did not question any of his non-answers. The way I see it is this. The typical CNN interview would have went,

2:27:00 So tell me how this is going to be good for banning white supremacists. I agree with you that I miss that. Yes, I agree. I miss the January 6th. I miss that. Yes, I agree. All she wanted to know is how is this going to impact our business? Because at the end of the day, the governance board is governing the media companies and they're looking at it, look, We took your 2016, we took your Black Lives Matter, we took your pro-LGBT, and we're bleeding out. We're bleeding out over here. You're doing good. You're dragging me over the line. You're getting me closer. I got one toe close. So what, they lost $300 million for a month worth of service? Because their news is so sanitized.

2:27:48 that you may talk across the scene radical. I mean, like, just think about that for a minute. Hold on a second. Yeah. You're talking about CNN Plus? Yes. Don't get caught up in that. They got bought. The new owners didn't want it. It didn't get shut down because it had no one watching. It got shut down. That's my point. It was not ever in the plan. But that's my point though, they threw $300 million away on something they couldn't even salvage. They couldn't even say, you know what, let's bring in new talent, you know, let's shake it up a little bit. No, they said we had to scrap this whole thing and I think they're scrapping the whole woke business model. It's like, you know what? We'll go back to fair and balanced. We will ask the same questions like she was doing. Yes. That was an act. I got greedy on that. There's another thing that we've noticed. So Discovery bought Warner AT&T and Warner and so they bought CNN with it.

2:28:49 Right? So this is all discoveries. So the big man who's really in control of this whole deal is Malone, John Malone. Okay. I mean, the Warner Brothers CEO is a different guy, but John Malone is the chairman and he is a 45 Savage guy. That's what's going on here. And that's what I'm saying, the tone is switching. And we've noticed, you know, they've cleaned up. They cleaned up the Cuomo kid. They cleaned up all the pedophiles. Yeah, they got all the... Well, I think not all, not all. I think they got the tip of the iceberg maybe. But yeah, they got some of the pedos out of there, the pedo bears. Who else did they clean up? The Cuomo kid. Cuomo cleaned up his shit. Yeah. Cleaned all of that up, got rid of it. You know, and I'm sure there's been internal shakeups and of course Zucker himself left.

2:29:41 So yeah, yeah, okay. I think people are very cautious. Dana Bash, she's not gonna get another gig. She's auditioning to stay. Yes, and it's gonna be reporting on missing airplanes. We're going back to that business model. Yeah, possibly. Hey, you know, just do more Amber Heard. I'll even watch that. What did you just say? Exactly. I think the woke media is like old news, and I think they don't want Obama looking over their shoulder. What CEO would want the government, give the government more power?

2:30:16 This is not about ideology. This is about do I want the government looking over my shoulder to say, oh that's disinformation. That's bad for business. And that's why I said that they bleed out that way. Just to go to the other side of the spectrum, now we have Tulsi Galbert, she was on with Will Kane on Fox News, and she's saying both sides are in on it. Is Joe Biden that radical that he's relying on Orwellian tactics to hold onto control? and I think it's no surprise to know that it's not just Obama, but it's the whole Obama-Clinton machine that has been in power for a long time and continues to pull the strings behind the curtain in the Biden administration. But when we're talking about this ministry of truth, Will, what's even more disturbing than the fact that you have all these Democrats who are supporting it is that there are powerful Republicans who are supporting it as well.

2:29:41 So yeah, yeah, okay. I think people are very cautious. Dana Bash, she's not gonna get another gig. She's auditioning to stay. Yes, and it's gonna be reporting on missing airplanes. We're going back to that business model. Yeah, possibly. Hey, you know, just do more Amber Heard. I'll even watch that. What did you just say? Exactly. I think the woke media is like old news, and I think they don't want Obama looking over their shoulder. What CEO would want the government, give the government more power?

2:30:16 This is not about ideology. This is about do I want the government looking over my shoulder to say, oh that's disinformation. That's bad for business. And that's why I said that they bleed out that way. Just to go to the other side of the spectrum, now we have Tulsi Galbert, she was on with Will Kane on Fox News, and she's saying both sides are in on it. Is Joe Biden that radical that he's relying on Orwellian tactics to hold onto control? and I think it's no surprise to know that it's not just Obama, but it's the whole Obama-Clinton machine that has been in power for a long time and continues to pull the strings behind the curtain in the Biden administration. But when we're talking about this ministry of truth, Will, what's even more disturbing than the fact that you have all these Democrats who are supporting it is that there are powerful Republicans who are supporting it as well.

2:31:32 There's one in particular over the last couple of days who's been very vocal on television about this. And I want to read his direct quote because it was very disturbing to me. He says, this is an important function of the Department of Homeland Security, but they put the absolute wrong person in charge of it. Who was this? Hold on the fact that she didn't say who it was. Yes, you said important Republican, but she never says name. Isn't that weird? And because you picked up on it. Because you said, who is this? The fact that you quote somebody and don't give their name lets me know that that's a friend of ours. Remember, Tulsi is, of course, one of the World Economic Forum Young Global Leaders. And that's my whole point.

2:32:18 That's my whole point is that I think that they want to get back to business as usual. Both these media operations are controlled, as you just heard with her. She couldn't even say the Republican's name because they're sure that Republican is a friend of who at a Fox News network. And it's like, okay, you can get on here and talk bipartisan, but you can't say his name. And I've never heard somebody give a quote Well, you know who said it, but you don't say who it is. That was... Do we know who said it? No, she never said. Damn. And they didn't ask. The same thing like you said the other day in the past. No follow up, no nothing. I think the media is like, we're tired of playing this game. It's back to business. And they're okay with Elon getting Twitter because most times, guess what, you're going to get good hashtags now. You know what really brought them all together? The war in Ukraine. The war in Ukraine brought the news media together because they all bow to the military-industrial complex. They all have to do it.

2:33:20 That's so much money. Brought to you by Boeing. Yes. The new thing is going to be Boeing, like brought to you by Boeing. Well, look at PBS. It's often brought to you by Boeing. Boeing is just another contractor. So yeah, yeah, this is good observation, Mo. This is good. I'm just looking at the timing and I think somebody may have tip you know cuz of course I'm sure It was super coordinated and you're right. I think you're right all right, so let's go ahead and get in 26 And, Will, the problem here is not the person they put in charge of it. The bigger problem here is the board itself. The bigger problem here is that, unfortunately, we have powerful Democrats and Republicans who are supporting this ministry of truth, who do not believe in the Constitution and freedom of speech, who have no faith in the American people and are willing to put our taxpayer dollars

2:34:18 towards this propaganda department, this ministry of truth. It's something that belongs in a dictatorship. A ministry of truth does not belong in the United States of America. You know, the ministry of truth thing is, unfortunately, it's a misnomer. It's not what the ministry of truth did in 1984, in the movie, in the book. What they did is change history to fit the current narrative. That's what the news media does. That's... they're the ministry of truth. What these... Ding ding ding ding ding! Y'all tell us what the guys say. This is our job. This is our job. It's just our job to tell you what to think. Not the government. I think that's the pushback. There's nobody that's benevolent in this. Oh, you know, okay, hold on a second. Now, yes, now I know what I hear in Dana Bash. She's sad. She's not mad. She's sad. What are you gonna be doing with this ministry of truth?

2:35:22 Because weren't we doing a good enough job? It was okay, so aren't we good at shaming people? Why do you have to do it different? That's what I heard in her voice. And they can change whatever they, they own the rubber stamp of what's disinformation. So when it comes back and say, oh CNN, you were pushing a lot of this agenda. And we see that this is disinformation or whoever Fox News the same thing. Yes, you've widened my perspective to this entire this entire gambit. I appreciate it. All right. So we're going to remind people that I for the longest said Obama was in power. As soon as the election was over. Yes. Let's just remind people from the throwback clip that he said it himself that he was up for a third term. What you know now do you wish like you had a third term?

2:36:14 And I used to say, you know what? If I could make an arrangement where I had a stand in a front man or front woman and they had an earpiece in and I was just in my basement in my sweats looking through the stuff and then I could sort of deliver the lines. But somebody else was doing all the talking and ceremony. I'd be fine with it. Yeah. Yeah. No. And you know how that was really clear? What was going on? And it's interesting because JCD, I can't get him to believe this, because we've talked about it and I agree. I said, dude, it's so obvious. He said, well, who's really in charge? I said, it's the whole group. It's the whole cabal. And I think Obama is the spokeshole of the cabal internally. They all worship him. So he's the guy and whoever's got his ear, he communicates. Well, part of it, yeah. He's the alpha dog.

2:37:13 But it was so apparent when he was at the White House, and this is one shot. Obama and the vice president, they're working the crowd and they're working like president and vice president and Joe Biden is behind them. I thought you meant the vice president, Joe. Exactly. And Biden is behind them. Now we've all seen that he's kind of looking lost and stuff, but then he tries to get President Obama's attention, puts his hand on his shoulder. I hadn't seen that the first time I saw the clip. And he holds his hand there Obama does kind of like a quarter not even a quarter like an eighth turn with his head and out of his peripheral vision sees it's Joe and just looks right back and keeps talking with people and Biden still has his hand on his shoulder he completely ignores him like I don't know what his falsehood at Joe but I mean Obama likes Joe Biden

2:38:11 He never liked Joe Biden. No, he hated him. He's a clean, he's a clean. He never liked him. He just needed him. I know, but he's... but that was a public display and it was a mistake. On Obama's part it was a mistake and that will ultimately trip him up in this little thing they've got going on because he does love the attention and vanity. Vanity is the one that'll get you. and wait till that Obama third term hashtag comes. You know, wait till that comes. I mean, that's gonna be the one, but we gotta thank some people first and appreciate some new money. I like brand new money. I just, I don't want any money around me that's not, I'd almost rather have a new one than an old 20. That's kind of dumb, isn't it? But there's something about new money that excites you. You like hundred dollar bills? Oh yeah, I like new money too.

2:45:28 He did a one at the Chicago U or University of Chicago and this is WGN news, the local news that covered it. And it says a former president Barack Obama was back home in Chicago on Wednesday with an urgent warning about disinformation. A conversation with former President Barack Obama just wrapped up at the University of Chicago and how disinformation spreads, the war in Ukraine among the number of topics he addressed. WGN political reporter Taman Bradley is there and he joins us now with more. Taman. Micah and Ray, good evening. The Atlantic and the University of Chicago Institute of Politics teamed up for this look at disinformation. It's a topic the former president says he spent a lot of time thinking about.

2:46:15 Former President Barack Obama back home in Chicago tonight with an urgent warning about disinformation. The way I define disinformation is if you have a systematic effort to either promote false information, to suppress true information, for the purpose of... Hey, stop the clip, stop the clip. Is Obama high? You know, I think part of it, I understand what you're asking, part of it's the compression of the audio, I think, that it makes it really sound like that. Not that, I'm talking about how slow he is speaking and choosing his words very... He was always known to be that flow,

2:47:15 Oh no, you know this is an interesting observation. In the Stanford, because I watched the whole thing, the Stanford speech, it was an hour-long speech, really only 30 minutes of speech. He was doing six, seven, eight second pauses in between his sentences. I found it very hard to listen to and that's why I brought it up. Like, is what? What I mean, like, is it long COVID? I mean, like, what what is it? I mean, that he has to stop and yeah, collect his words when he would like say the

2:47:53 True talent of him was like that flow and that vibe that he had when he was... Yeah, well, you know... ...information. And I observed this and he still has that flow. It's just he's in... when he stops... He stops for a real long time like someone said man, that's really impressive when you do that That's that's what it feels like to me Oh man, you and you that really gives you power and it makes you feel like you're just you're the you're the top dog of the world Who can do that? You can make everyone wait and listen in silence for seven seconds. I just found it weird and very hard to listen to information

2:48:34 to suppress true information for the purpose of political gain, financial gain. The former president telling this conference held at the University of Chicago Institute of Politics that normal debate of ideas is fine, but systemic disinformation is destructive. For financial gain. Yes. I think that they really want to hijack corporate media and turn it to state media. It makes things a hell of a lot easier. They don't have these problems over PBS, you know, because the state is state funded. And I think that's the... You brought up Europe and saying, okay, we won't let Twitter in. I think that's what they crave is that

2:49:35 Now he got me doing it is that kind of control and power Huh So it's not about Twitter then that's a very good point, huh? Okay, I mean, um, what was the guy's name Hearst? Yeah, Will Hurst. Randolph Hurst. Yeah, the big newspaper. I mean, he bought all the small newspapers. I think this is a similar thing. This is the printing press. But they're going to do it through regulation and legislation. I think that's the control mechanism the government wants. And the corporate media is still corporate at the end of the day, and they want to make money. And severe

2:50:27 oppression from the government is not good for business. They've done this long enough so let's go ahead and get to the second piece of this clip. It is difficult for me to see how we win the contest of ideas if in fact we are not able to agree on a baseline of facts. The former president also offered thoughts about Russia's attack on Ukraine. He said Vladimir Putin's aggression should serve as a reminder to the world that democracy is fragile. It is a tragedy of historic proportions. It is a bracing reminder for democracies that have gotten

2:51:26 that had gotten flabby. What's happening there is not isolated. What we're seeing is a reversion back to old ways of thinking about power and place and identity. So Mr. Obama's answers for disinformation, for starters he says America must grapple with the Internet's fascination for crazy and he says there's no silver bullet. We can't make no promises. Do you understand? We're going to fix it. Right. In true government form. So when I heard this and I heard Chicago University that rung a bell with me and we got to go all the way back to show five.

2:52:22 And that was the Popeye's chicken sandwich nudging episode. Oh yeah, I remember this. Okay. Yeah, and this is Professor Richard Thayer. I think that's how you pronounce it. He's a graduate of Chicago University and he talks about nudging. Yes, some people worry that the idea of choice architects and nudging is somehow leading to Big Brother. And that's not the way we think about it. One of the points we stress in the book is that there has to be some choice architecture.

2:52:57 So, the person who designs that cafeteria downstairs has to put the food somewhere. The salad has to be in front of the burgers or behind the burgers. Given that you have to arrange the food in some order, we argue, why not have the choice architect arrange the food in such a way that people will be happier and healthier and maybe live a little longer. Choice architects had yes, I'd forgotten that term and the nut so the nudge is the gas Like think this let me put this in front of you nudge nudge nudge right now what they want to put in is the brakes This disinformation thing like okay the choice architects are

2:53:40 are saying, okay, this is good for you, this is good for you, this is unhealthy, we can't talk about this topic, we want to shape this topic this way, and I think this is what, you were talking about the procedures of the board? The governance board? I think this is it. They are choice architects. Because remember, Obama's the one that brought the nudge, it was official, I forget the name of it, but the nudging wing of the government in. You mean the after the Smith month act was no this is way before that this is when he'd say okay, we can bring in They were they were basically saying we could do open propaganda this this creates the Smith month act because that was in 2015 well it would it was it was it was 2012 it was overturned or was it was kind of nullified in the National Defense Authorization Act in 2012 and

2:54:42 I think we're talking about the same thing because they removed, they overturned that and so now it was possible to go ahead and propagandize Americans. Yeah, so I mean, what was a government organization that was doing the nudging? And then they kind of went private after Trump came in. They all went to the private section. Yeah, I'm trying to... This rings a bell? I can't remember what it was. What was the name? I can't... It'll come back to me. If you know this, in episode 5 we talked about it in detail. It was the nudge unit or something. Yeah, so...

2:55:18 I think this is just another piece of that. So now I have this piece from, this is from Local 5 in Iowa. And this is like, this is reaching the masses. And I could have made a supercut out of at least seven or eight Now I saw in the search review of local news pushing what, explaining what disinformation and misinformation was and the difference between the two. But this one was special because they included a third form of bad information.

2:55:54 If you were to dive into the dark web, you'd find a lot of information you couldn't find with say just a simple Google search. And a lot of what's down there is simply false information. In recent years, that false information has made its way to mainstream platforms. Now a simple Google search will show you ideas, thoughts and movements previously hidden away from the dark corners of the internet. To protect yourself against what's false and harmful, you need to understand how that information comes to exist in the first place and how it comes across your social media feeds. Now there are three different types of content as identified by FirstDraft. That is an organization fighting to bring you truth.

2:56:32 on what you read and watch. Disinformation, misinformation, and malinformation. Collectively, these three groups are known as information disorder. Let's start with the first. Disinformation is... intentionally false. It's designed to cause harm. That's often backed by motivations to make money, to have political influence or cause trouble just for the sake of it. The second, misinformation. That's also false content, but the person sharing it doesn't realize it's false or misleading. This is driven by socio-psychological factors. These people want to feel connected to their tribe, whether that's the same political party, activists for climate change, or those

2:57:13 that belong to a certain religion, race or ethnic group. Finally, malinformation. This is genuine information shared with the intent to cause harm. An example is when Russian hackers hacked the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton's campaigns and emails. They leaked certain details just to damage reputations. So before you hit or share or retweet, stop and ask yourself how that information came to exist and whether it's at all credible. It was the social and behavioral sciences team. That's who President Obama used to get insights from psychology, behavioral economics, and other decision sciences to improve federal programs and operations, also known as the Nudge Unit.

2:58:11 That's when he was in his first term. First two terms. You're right. Now he's in his third term. But this malinformation, did you pick up on what they were saying there? Yeah, I had heard this. I didn't think their example was correct because that wasn't malinformation. That was true. It was real documents. So that's not what malinformation is. But yes. That's exactly what it is. Listen to what he said. He said it's true. It's genuine information, but you're using it to hurt people.

2:58:52 Let me listen to that again because there was something in there that made me think differently. Misinformation. That's also false content, but the person sharing it doesn't realize it's false or misleading. This is driven by socio-psychological factors. These people want this for climate change or those that belong to a certain religion, race, or ethnic group. Finally malinformation. This is genuine information shared with the intent to cause harm an example is when Russian hacker Okay, all right now the thing is he's explaining malinformation With disinformation because Russian hackers did not hack the DNC server it was stolen from inside most likely Dorseth rich and

2:59:39 But he's justified to do it to save you from the mal information. I understand. It's meta. This is their psychology. But they get around it and say, you know what? It's okay to do it. It's okay to use any tactics. No, these people, look. I know bugs are a bad, you know, it's a tough, you know what I'm saying, tough pill to swallow to eat bugs. But we're making it popular so it's good for you. Because if you go back and look at what the guy Thayer was saying, let me get the name of his book one more time. It's the Nudge, improving decisions about health, wealth, and happiness. So we nudge you because we love you. That's right.

3:00:23 These people tell you the truth because they hate you even though it's true. It's mal information now We can start saying even if it's true we can ban it isn't where do we end up? Yeah, people who do that. I mean so that inverse of Hey, when it's truth, that's really bad and they're trying to hurt you but we're lying to you because we love you and Isn't that literally the work of the devil? Yes. It's got to be. Yes. It's upside down world. Okay. Or they're playing God. Right. Let's just do that in the inverse of that. Also a no-no.

3:01:05 Yeah, the worst is they're saying trust me just like with Joy and Reed and Shereen Mitchell. Right. They knew what they were saying was bad but they're like okay but this will get Trump out of office. Yeah. So it's all justified. Justified, yes of course. Yeah so that's how they look at it. So that malinformation we got to keep an eye on that one. But once again I have some more clips of Obama and this is 33. So after years of dangerous disinformation being spread on social media, it is time for Silicon Valley's unregulated days to end. That is the message President Obama delivered to an audience actually at Stanford University just this week where he said quote, people are dying because of misinformation. People like Putin and Steve Bannon for that matter. There it is.

3:01:59 Understand, it's not necessary for people to believe this information in order to weaken democratic institutions. You just have to flood a country's public square with enough raw sewage. You just have to raise enough questions, spread enough dirt, plant enough conspiracy theorizing that citizens no longer know what to believe. Now, I applaud the president's message, but I have to ask, where have you been?

3:02:36 This is a speech that should have been delivered years ago and not on some random Thursday in April at a California university, but on a platform the whole world would pay attention to. If governing me harder, daddy, was a person, that would be it. Yeah. Where were you? Where were you with the protectors? Govern me harder, daddy. It's like, what? Sick. It's sick. Would you ever think we'll be in a day where the media, especially the left-wing media, will be telling the government, yes, yes, govern us harder?

3:03:16 No, no, but it's I mean left is right right is left up is down red is blue who the hell knows who's right? Or you have people you're saying on the right hand side. No supporting Russia or don't want conflict with Russia It's completely weird and I know I said weird a lot, but I don't know a better word for it Well, that's just but that shows the brain. Yeah, that shows you that it's it's not about conviction It's about other things and I would say money Money drives a lot of decisions people make. That's our only hope. That's all we got. And that's sad. That's sad that that's why Twitter was sold. At the end of the day, if they could have somehow said, okay, we cannot sell it and not get sued and lose a bunch of money, they wouldn't have sold it. But it's kind of like, that's why capitalism is a good thing.

3:04:10 I mean, I hate to say it, but like greed is good. I mean, that's so bad to say, but that's the only logical thing we have left is if it's monetarily beneficial or not. Everything else is just propaganda. Yes, sir. All right, so let's go ahead and get to people are dying part two. Our panel is back with us. Maya, correct me if I'm wrong here. Those are my thoughts. I am a firm believer that we have a disinformation pandemic around the world. Your reaction to Obama's speech? Well, A, I'm glad he gave it. I'm glad that he was fairly unvarnished. I'm glad that he actually... Hold on. Is there any more Obama in this clip?

3:04:58 It was just them talking about it. I think they just see him talking about it. Right, because I want to share a clip that I clipped from this that completely corroborates with him being in charge. The First Amendment is a check on the power of the state. It doesn't apply to private companies like Facebook or Twitter. Any more than it applies to editorial decisions made by the New York Times or Fox News. Never has. Social media companies already make choices about what is or is not allowed on their platforms and how that content appears, both explicitly through content moderation and implicitly through algorithms. The problem is we often don't know what principles govern those decisions. And on an issue of enormous public interest, there's been little public debate and practically no democratic oversight. Any rules we come up with to govern the distribution of content on the Internet

3:05:52 will involve value judgments. None of us are perfectly objective. What we consider an unshakable truth today may prove to be totally wrong tomorrow. But that doesn't mean... That gets better. Some things aren't truer than others. Some are truer than others, you know, you've got your alternative reality. Or that we can't draw lines between opinions, facts, honest mistakes, intentional deceptions. We make these distinctions all the time in our daily lives. At work, in school, at home, in sports. And we can do the same when it comes to Internet content. As long as we agree on a set of principles, some core values, to guide the work. So, in the interest of full transparency, here's what I think our guiding principles should be.

3:06:47 The way I'm going to evaluate any proposal touching on social media and the internet. There it is. You picked it up on it immediately. The way I'm going to evaluate any proposal I mean, hello? I mean, it's one thing to say, hey man, you know, before I make a decision, I'm going to look at every single proposal. Before I give a judgment, before I discuss anything, I'll look at all the proposals, but no. Here's how I will evaluate what you will have to deal with. He's in charge. This is it. What I think our guiding principles should be, the way I'm going to evaluate any proposal touching on social media and the internet,

3:07:29 is whether it strengthens or weakens the prospects for a healthy, inclusive democracy. Whether it encourages robust debate and respect for our differences. Whether it reinforces rule of law and self-governance. Whether it helps us make collective decisions based on the best available information and whether it recognizes the rights and freedoms and dignity of all of our citizens. Anyway, I thought I'd play that to corroborate your... No, no, no, that's spot on. This is an unshakable truth today. It could be facts not true tomorrow. Yeah, isn't that great?

3:08:18 You got me on that one. Just think of that. When I hear that, what I hear is, yeah, the facts about the vaccine that we had, the information we had two years ago, it was unshakable truth. But you know, As you know, as our learning increased, we found out, yeah, it's not good. You can't hold that against us though. Science, science. All right, now we'll go back to the panel, the second part of the panel discussing this very speech Obama gave. No, you actually, no, you don't even have to play that now. Okay, we've already, all right, we've already. We could just jump, we could jump straight to how, you asked the question about how they're gonna do it or who's gonna do it. I guess we can go ahead and jump into 35.

3:09:03 I think he reminded us that there's choices made in every piece of tech that gets built, in every piece of software that's compiled. If we can leverage those choices to be not around our anxieties and fears, but to be around hope, I think we can start taking the right steps in a direction that regulates what's happening in the world out there so that democracy is ensured for everyone. Some of it has to do with political and financial forces. that are deliberately manipulating and spreading falsehoods that can have really dire consequences. The good news is, I think, that everybody's identifying this now as a problem, partly because of what we've seen with the anti-vax movement online, what happened after January 6th, and the mythology that somehow last presidential election wasn't fair. They're seeing vividly in places like Ukraine the consequences of

3:09:57 When you have dictatorships controlling information, now what we have to do is start figuring out what are the solutions. It is unlikely you will be able to change those political structures immediately. That then connected with the broader conference and conversation I had on stage about disinformation and misinformation. Our goal in the foundation is to train the next generation of leaders and give them platforms and connections and make sure they're not isolated and that they're learning from each other across borders. And uniformly, they're all confronting

3:10:33 these issues about how do I deal with misinformation in my country, in my town? How do I get access to the public so that they know the facts that are affecting their lives? And so we are through the foundation, we're really soliciting from young people ideas and trying out a bunch of things. Ah, the foundation. Okay. The foundation. This came from the Obama Foundation website, uh, YouTube channel. And it's pathetic. It only had 4k views. I mean, for you to be the most popular president in history, your video had no comments and 4k views. This is why we're kicking their ass. And I just have to say it. They don't have any,

3:11:24 pizzazz. The biggest cap in the world or the biggest lie teller in the world that everybody loves Obama, nobody really cares about Obama. This is why his podcast got canceled. It's embarrassing. You say you let the podfather and a guy that never podcast before beat you. Kick your ass. And the Ambrose Springs scene. Kick both your asses. They tapped out. Yeah, I'm getting my soapbox for a minute. It's embarrassing. You do it. You do it. Yes. And we didn't even have that big team. What do we got? Two laptops, some gear? A couple of strings and some gaffer tape.

3:12:07 You got tapped, you tapped out. No. So that's why they're worried. That's why they had to control the narrative. That's why they get threatened when somebody goes and buys Twitter because they're getting beat by us. So you think somebody has a whole platform? And like I said, I'm not capable for Elon at all because I can't get past the brand ship thing for me. And then the funniest thing was out of all of it was, and then we can get to the last two clips. I had guys I know that are flat earthers, or pro-Elon. It's like, hold on, what about that dome over the earth that you talk about? Oh now you're Mr. SpaceX? Not me. I'm consistent. Firmament first, baby. As above, so below. No, but that's

3:12:54 how crazy, what crazy times are that people are going against things they are steadfast in to support the hot new thing. And just to wrap up these last two clips, I sent you a PDF and this is the house resolution 1154. Would you like to read some of that before we get into these next two clips? Sure. I don't believe I've seen this, but here is. Whereas, oh this is a resolution.

3:13:32 So just so this is not a bill but a resolution. A resolution is where in this case the House of Representatives is going to make a statement as to what they believe in on a certain matter and that will in some to some degree will determine their policy. Whereas October 2nd 2020 2020. Whereas, throughout history, conspiracy theories that falsely blame secret cabals or marginalized groups for society's ills have fueled prejudice, genocide, and acts of terrorism. Whereas QAnon is a movement promoting a collection of unfounded conspiracy theories that have spread widely on the internet since 2017.

3:14:17 Whereas, QAnon initially alleged that prominent Americans are engaged in a secret plot to control the world while using their power to exploit children, and has expanded to embrace virtually every popular conspiracy theory of the last several decades, from questioning the truth about the September 11th terrorist attacks, to believing in alien landings, to denying the safety of vaccines. Oh, this is good. Whereas many QAnon followers express anti-Semitic views and the anti-defamation... This is our show! And the Anti-Defamation League has said that the movement's central conspiracy theory includes anti-Semitic elements. See, three episodes ago. Whereas conspiracy theories have been a central driver of the anti-Semitism for centuries, and QAnon conspiracy theories are fanning the flames as anti-Semitism is on the rise in the United States around the world.

3:15:09 Wow, I've never seen this document, Mo. Well, not only see it, now let's go and listen to how these people speak about fellow Americans. H.R.A.S. 1154 from Representative Malinowski is a bipartisan resolution. It is co-sponsored by Representative Riggleman, Brian Fitzpatrick, Adam Kinzinger, Josh Gottheimer, and Elaine Luria. And it is specifically about QAnon. QAnon is a movement promoting a collection of unfounded conspiracy theories that have spread on the internet over the last several years. These conspiracy theories undermine public trust in our democratic institutions and our election process.

3:15:55 QAnon initially alleged that prominent Americans are engaged in a secret plot to control the world while using their power to exploit children and now extends to a range of dangerous conspiracy theories. The FBI has assessed with high confidence that quote fringe political conspiracy theories including QAnon, very likely motivate some domestic extremists wholly or in part to engage in criminal or violent activity, and that these conspiracy theories, again this is a quote, very likely encourage the targeting of specific people, places, and organizations, thereby increasing the likelihood of violence against these targets. Okay, since that was at the beginning, which was by far

3:16:45 You know, the Q... just my opinion having followed the QAnon movement, I guess, quite closely, they put this up front in this... this is all about QAnon to discredit the the pizza party play. Yeah, and not only that... We have a thing we say in parlance, thou doth protesteth too much. Mm-hmm. No, it's like come on. What are you trying to prove here people and we have a thing in Proverbs in the Bible? Was that an unsure man a wicked man flees when no one chases? Oh, it's a good one. Yeah But this is fill in the blank because they say every popular Conspiracy in the last few decades so fill in the blank. I

3:17:50 That throws you in there, you flat earthers. That throws you in there, the people that question the election. That throws you in there, you know. I'm surprised that this isn't called the Adam Curry House Resolution. Yes, this is House Resolution 1154, also known as the crackpot resolution. But they had to use a QAnon because that goes in January 6th and that's the justification that these people are violent. And one last thing, if you could go down and list the crimes. Now these are the crimes that they listed as being problematic from QAnon. It's like four of them I believe.

3:18:28 Well, I'll read a little bit of the preamble before because they say, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has assessed with high confidence, high confidence, were they high when they came up with the confidence? That fringe political conspiracy theories, including QAnon, quote, very likely motivate some domestic extremists wholly or in part to engage in criminal or violent activity. And they list some of these. One, a man arrested in 2018 for plotting to plant a bomb in the Illinois Capitol Rotunda to make Americans aware of the Pizzagate conspiracy theory. There you go. Two, a man arrested in 2018 for using an armored car to block bridge on the Hoover Dam bypass bridge. I forgot about that one. Three, a man in Arizona arrested in 2019 for vandalizing a Catholic church.

3:19:20 Well, that's an odd one. Four, a woman in Colorado arrested in 2019 for plotting an armed raid to kidnap her child who had been taken from her custody. Her child? Her own child. Five, a man charged with the murder of an organized crime boss in New York in 2019. What? Isn't that supposed to be a hero? Okay, and a woman arrested in New York with a car full of knives after posting a video accusing Joe Biden of participating in child sex trafficking and threatening to kill him man of all the things to Wow This this is you this is their list of things. It's problematic. They caused him to have this house resolution and

3:20:13 These people got problems. Oh, it gets worse. Listen to how they talk about American citizens in this last clip. These are online conspiracy theorists who believe that the world is run by devil-worshipping pedophiles. Or that people like Oprah Winfrey or the Dalai Lama, who I very much respect, are killing people and drinking their blood in order to live longer. Unfortunately, these people do not leave their conspiracy theories to themselves or to their inner circles. They're online and they have committed crimes like murder and they have plotted to kill

3:20:56 one of the presidential nominees, Vice President Joe Biden. Today they spread a rumor that Joe Biden was wearing a wire at the debates. The FBI identifies this group as dangerous, whereas President Trump has called them people who love our country. If the President of the United States will not denounce this insane rhetoric, this cult us as members of Congress must do. And I want to thank the ranking member for standing up against this cult. I urge my colleagues to support both of these resolutions and I yield back. Did this pass? Did everyone sign them? I couldn't find an update on it. But a cult, bipartisanship. If you don't believe what the states want you to believe, you're in a cult. Wow.

3:21:57 Yeah, that's pretty, that's... Let me see, HR 1154. These are our politicians. Yeah. That you're saying that they're supposed to work for us? No, no, no. I'm just saying that's in the perfect world. They should be doing our bidding, but no. It's, let me see. Tax amendments, co-sponsors, did it pass? I couldn't find much on it. I mean, I found this clip and this was actually the hearing on YouTube, but I couldn't find any more information. I don't I don't know if that's the one. No, that's something different.

3:22:44 I don't know if that, well it doesn't really matter the timing of it, you know, right before the election is very obvious what they're doing there. You know what's interesting is that, and just our friendship is also a part of it, but it's all of this crazy that for me there's enough evidence to believe. It's just the evil, which is what I'm seeing Obama doing with the minute, all of this stuff. That has brought, that has, because I, the biggest conspiracy theory of all is God. And I've been approaching the God conspiracy theory from the same way I approach everything else that I look at, because I'm a conspiracy therapist. And one, besides having read evidence that demands a verdict, which really blew my mind,

3:23:35 The amount of evil that I'm seeing in the world, there has to be a counterbalance. You can't have... otherwise it would just all be evil and it's clearly not. So that kind of literally drove me right into Jesus' arms to be quite honest. And it's been very interesting to view all of this through that lens or through believing. Yeah, because that's the trend, right? I mean, just the un... I mean, the transparency of it. I've never seen anything like this in my life, of just how transparent they are on, you know, how supportive... Just blatantly open, you mean? Just open to the point where it's re-shifting the alliances, like with Tulsi Gabbard coming over to Republican side and CNN, you know,

3:24:37 pushing back the way they are and you know it's just making for strange bedfellows which I think we're past the old political divide and it's becoming a good versus evil kind of thing and it's not all even about believers you know because you have some people that are just good people that aren't believers but they're like hey man this is getting crazy it was right but it's a little too crazy for me right but we Sometimes you gotta fight something with different kind of weapons. Yeah. So... Okay, Moe. Changing everybody's life once again. This was a good one. I like... Now, you know, we'll see what happens with Twitter?

3:25:18 This will unfold and things will start to take shape and we know what to look for because we have you know somewhat varying opinions, but You know, I love that we both nailed the whole coordinated Obama Ministry of Truth you know the the disinformation board and the And and the governor of the board we both saw that we saw through that shit right away But I really like what you brought in now with this backstory. And yeah, it's creepy now. It's real creepy what they're doing. And I think we both agree on this. I don't want people to get confused. There is going to be more control. Oh yeah. Don't get me twisted on that part of it. It's about they're fighting who's going to have the keys.

3:26:10 Is it going to be corporations or is it going to be government? And I think this is the real battle that I see playing out. Which is why we hold the true keys to freedom and that is the podcast. And we are completely free and clear of any of that mess. There's technically no way they can really get rid of us or stop us. There's no way they can, you know, that's why we also accept Bitcoin. There's no way to de-platform. We are uncancellable and a lot of that is thanks to the producers who we really appreciate for their support.

3:26:46 Yes, and I thank you very much. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself. And that may be sooner than we all know with this particular one. Can't wait to see. Hey Mo, can't wait to talk to you in two weeks. Have a good one, brother. All right, talk to you later, Adam. Remember us at MoFacts.com. Here I come, you can't hide, gonna find you. here i come You can't hide from love, no.

3:27:55 Gonna find you and keep you happy Baby, here I come, you can't hide Gonna love you and make you love me Baby, where you go, I'm home, home, home, baby And you can find your love in the air Ready or not, here I come. You can't hide it. Gonna find you and keep you high.