37: A Shell Game

00:00 Mo Facts with Adam Curry for May 16th, 2020. This is episode number 37 and not even five days after episode 36 we're back hey mo how you doing? I'm doing pretty good Adam how about yourself yeah very good I was like whoa man mo did you fall out of bed what happened this is a dude like a crazy person Yeah, man we're getting back on the Saturday cycle. So here we are! Very good everything still good with the family? Everyone's still on lockdown from the Rona but hanging in? Everybody is doing good healthy and

00:40 Just enjoying life pretty much. Excellent, all right kind of the same here I guess in text although we have this weird weather it's like we've got torrential rains every single night it's like...I don't know how that happens all of a sudden very odd I'm just as confused by the time as i am the weather. Exactly, all right let's see what we've got going on for today's MoFax! I have a feeling and I haven't listened to anything of course... Mo surprises me with what he shows up with but I did see one or two titles of the clips and I think I know what it's gonna be but let's wind up

01:18 I've been wanting to talk about this thing for a long time. It just crept in, what almost a year ago now? I'll bet this New York Times 1619 project. Yeah, a little over a year maybe so Deep when these things crop up. I don't like to talk about them right away. I know a lot of people Hit me up my age you're gonna talk about this, but I like the same play out mm-hmm

01:59 And that way we can get the full story. And I do that with a lot of things, I have it in my file...I created a file on it but.. The last thing you want to be is in Moe's file because that's not a good thing! So um let's just get...you wanna say something? Well no, I was gonna ask if he also had a file of license plate numbers of people who drive by your house. I did not uh...not yet But let's just get right into the ad for 1619. In August, 1619 a ship appeared on this horizon near Point Comfort Virginia it carried more than 20 enslaved Africans who were sold to the colonists no aspect of the country we know today has been untouched by the slavery that followed America was not yet America but this was the moment it began

03:04 So what would I be seeing that would accompany this sound here at the Edmo? Just the New York Times, uh... who was brought by. So basically always leave the trailer music that way people can get the sense of emotions yeah the emotion they're trying to invoke so that's why i always leave that And it's clearly they're trying to, you know make you feel something with this ad. So the field people in on what the 1619 project was that would just it was a multi-part of presentation put together by The New York Times now if I could just interject for a moment because this came on the scene and It was heralded literally heralded as

04:05 This is this is the way children need to learn about America. This is the true The true origins of our country and of course they came out with a date which is not something that a boomer slash Gen X-er like myself would recognize 1619. It's like that's not one of the important dates we learned so this went into curriculum I've seen teachers, professors everybody all all jitty about the 1619 project and I've looked at some of it But I immediately felt that there was an agenda at play and this is even before we were doing the show, I think. That this thing came around didn't it? I think-I think it might have cropped up right when we first started. Okay. I want to say... Hold on let me see

04:52 When it came on my radar, I'll say that. Because I'm from New York Times and stay away from the trauma-based journalism so... Yes! It sounded very much like trauma based something in that short little ad by itself. Yes So these next set of clips are from MSNBC and they will give us a background on the whole project Last August, the New York Times Magazine launched the 1619 Project in an attempt to reframe America's history through the lens of slavery. The name marks the arrival of the first enslaved people brought from Africa to the then Virginia colony. The sweeping project analyzed how slavery shaped American political social and economic institutions

05:43 Its authors sought to place the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative. Demand for the issue was intense, with New Yorkers lining up on the street to obtain copies. It was one of the most read pieces of journalism produced by The Times that entire year. Really now it was like oh, it like it was a new iPhone people were lined up on the street People were lined up on the street to get this thing. I Was amazed that wasn't one of the most read so that goes to show you how popular this snake The slave narrative is we always talk about the slave narrative only show how they take it and make It part of an agenda as you pointed out and it was so widespread on the internet but

06:38 I stated before it didn't pop up on my radar one until some people started pinging me about it and then two Is when this ad showed up that we just played previously Hmm interesting. Well, I liked I like the way it sounded Was that Mika from the morning Joe? Yes Yes, did so she start off by saying it's it's the history of America through the lens of slavery right okay Right. So it's not really the history of America But in a way It's also kind of presented as the history of America at least that's the way I've felt that just seeing stories You know along the way but not really stopping and to look into it too deeply

07:24 And the key term, I'm glad you picked up on that. And the key term that you're going to hear is the reframing. This is gonna be a repetitive theme in this whole topic but I guess we can go ahead and get into part two of Mika. The project grew to include a special section in the paper, a live event series, podcasts books and even an ad that ran during the Academy Awards But a backlash ensued. Princeton historian Sean Wilentz, generally considered to be a liberal, criticized its cynicism and began circulating a letter objecting to the project. Four leading scholars in their field James McPherson Gordon Wood Victoria Bynum and James Oakes signed on And the letter was sent To The New York Times A version of which was published on December 4th

08:23 Hmm, okay this thing called hell from both sides From the political left and of course the right Really I didn't realize that people on the Left had huge problems with it. I didn't get any of that yes, the political left the Real far-left the Marxist even they had was up in arms about it And we're going to get into that later It was a very, it inflamed a lot of people. Including myself after I did my homework. Right well and i figured something was off with it but you know it's like okay

09:05 Again, it was very...it was there on the radar and then it died down. And a couple months later popped up a little bit but I totally missed all the controversy other than what you know when it first came out and I even thought hmm okay so that I'm very happy we're doing this please lead us through it let me give you my first opinion so we can do this as it showed up what I felt about it yeah I'm thinking Okay, New York Times talking about slavery right around going into 2020. This is to galvanize or black debate the black voter yes and they're gonna use it as a Political propaganda to get people to vote that was my first take on When I saw it, I was like oh that's probably what that is Yeah exactly but it goes deeper than that Afraid of it

09:59 Yeah, so we're going to get in that. But let's finish up with the third clip in the background. Then in February a counter project emerged. The 1776 Project was launched by Robert Woodson, a black conservative and longtime community activist in Washington. Woodson said the project intended to counter what he called the anti-America propaganda of The Times Endeavor What's troubling about 1619 is that it defines America as being incurably racist, he said. It insists that all white people are beneficiaries of privilege and victimizers and all blacks are victims." Oooh! Robert? Is this Robert L Woodson who we're speaking of here? That is correct. Okay...

09:05 Again, it was very...it was there on the radar and then it died down. And a couple months later popped up a little bit but I totally missed all the controversy other than what you know when it first came out and I even thought hmm okay so that I'm very happy we're doing this please lead us through it let me give you my first opinion so we can do this as it showed up what I felt about it yeah I'm thinking Okay, New York Times talking about slavery right around going into 2020. This is to galvanize or black debate the black voter yes and they're gonna use it as a Political propaganda to get people to vote that was my first take on When I saw it, I was like oh that's probably what that is Yeah exactly but it goes deeper than that Afraid of it

09:59 Yeah, so we're going to get in that. But let's finish up with the third clip in the background. Then in February a counter project emerged. The 1776 Project was launched by Robert Woodson, a black conservative and longtime community activist in Washington. Woodson said the project intended to counter what he called the anti-America propaganda of The Times Endeavor What's troubling about 1619 is that it defines America as being incurably racist, he said. It insists that all white people are beneficiaries of privilege and victimizers and all blacks are victims." Oooh! Robert? Is this Robert L Woodson who we're speaking of here? That is correct. Okay...

10:53 So this touched on something that we've talked about in the show, about the victimization mentality and how the slave narrative is used to trigger that mindset in quote-unquote black people. Yeah I think it also triggers white people It does, and the guilt part. So I mean it works both ways. It's the victimization mentality on one side... It's like a smart bomb really! It works on everybody. It's fantastic so in all fairness

11:31 I didn't really take any clips from the roundtable except from Nicole, Hannah Jones and her pushback. Well let me start by saying that intro kind of sums up where we are which was there was a great deal of time spent on the detractors and almost no time in the intro spent on all of the historians who have stood behind the project This project states explicitly the ideology. We are a journalistic organization and we said that we were going to do a project that was looking at the legacy of slavery and placing slavery at the center of the narrative, and that's what we did it's not that we were hiding anything I

12:13 I find the backlash in some ways unsurprising and in some ways surprising. It makes me wonder if Mr. Page even read the project or if Mr. Page even read my essay because my essay is about how black people, despite undergoing chattel slavery legal apartheid lynching racial terrorism segregated schools segregated housing segregated military Believed fervently in the founding ideals and have fought generation after generation to make those ideals true And in fact had a faith in a country that didn't treat us as citizens and expanded democracy for all Americans I don't think that's victimization at all. Matter of fact, I think it's probably one of the most patriotic pieces one could read One of the most patriotic piece is nice so Nicole is a very interesting individual

13:05 And I don't know where to place her because on some topics she tells the outright truth, but on other topics she's very quiet. So going into it and letting people know how I received this before I started doing my digging I was like, okay. I've heard her before on other platforms one being in the Karen Hunter show and from what she talked about...I was like okay she has some valid points so i started digging into this 1619 project and as they said they had a podcast yes well it's all that's always where you get good clips from man from a podcast

13:55 So I started with The Land of Our Fathers, Part One. In the fall of 1864 at the height of the Civil War one of the most famous Union generals William Tecumseh Sherman begins his march out of the city of Atlanta to the sea and as Sherman and his men make their way through Georgia black Southerners are seeing an opportunity And so by the thousands, they start to leave the plantations where they've been enslaved and are falling behind Sherman's troops as they make their way to the coast. But these newly liberated people were not exactly welcomed. Sherman didn't actually oppose slavery and so he is really not that sympathetic to those who are fleeing these plantations. He also sees them as a drain on his resources

14:55 There are families, there are people of all ages young and old who need food and care. And they are slowing the troops down." I'll tell you man just from a production standpoint that music is traumatizing me that they got in the background it's like it's in my head like It's working! Like a Gregorian chant yeah it's very hypnotic and a little disturbing That's the point of it. Well, yes, I would say it opens you up just like in the ad itself

15:32 They use these low, low rumbling vibrational tones. Yeah. And it does open you up I mean if you study sound and I know you well aware but she's starting to lay out some good information here i'm like okay well at least she's telling that the north wasn't as sympathetic to the slave narrative as you would hear in mainstream history lessons Because the way the Civil War is laid out is, the great emancipator Abraham Lincoln and his super soldiers of the North were all set hell-bent on ending slavery. That's the narrative. That's one of the narratives yeah for sure that's what's taught in grade school At least that's the narrative

16:22 targeted towards black audiences. Well, when she starts to talk like she's talking, she's gonna piss some people off because now she's telling the truth about the Union soldiers and how they didn't really know weren't really against slavery and that's not really the reason why they were fighting per her take on history by December of that year summer Sherman troops are about to approach Savannah And they come up on a creek that is both too wide and too deep to cross without a bridge. So the troops start building one, and they instruct the black people who are following them to just wait that the troops need to cross first but then they'll be able to come after But the Confederate army is on their heels and once the Union troops crossed They break up the bridge

17:20 Leaving all those people who had just escaped slavery behind to face either the icy waters or the rebel army that was in pursuit. It is a massacre, some of them drown trying to swim across others are trampled or shot to death and those who remain are captured and re-enslaved Holy crap! That's not the way it was supposed to go And remind people, this is we're talking about the Union Army not the Confederate army. These were the good guys who were supposed to be saving the slaves? Right so this is very jarring for people that have American education. I don't know if I have to put the goggles on but I'm already feeling

18:18 One of the goals of this 1619 project is just to make sure you know that all white people hate you It's not just one or the other white person. It's all of them well at least back then I wouldn't go that far, okay? She has another narrative, and we're going to get there. All right. But that's let's just get into the next clip because I don't want to spoil anything. OK? When word gets back to Lincoln Secretary of War Edwin Stanton he is outraged He has Sherman pull together a meeting with 20 black church leaders

18:54 There's a transcript of this meeting and it shows that these two men, Stanton and Sherman actually turned to this group of black leaders and asked them what do you want for your own people? Speaking for the group, one of the men tells them. The way we can best take care of ourselves is to have land and turn it and till it by our own labor that is by the labor of the women and children and old men so we can soon maintain ourselves and have something to spare Man they already had the River Nile racket going on back then

19:35 I'm glad you picked up on that. I heard you laugh well, you rang your bell while I was chuckling through it. Yeah, of course Well this goes to show you that this we've been given this Grief to Margaret Sanger but this pre bringing in the pastors predates her yes Yes So she was just following along with a with a well-established program correct and what this does is this brings up one of the points of A very popular term, 40 acres and a mule. Right! Which wasn't there an actual 40 acres in the mule spot that was created for this very reason? Let's listen to the next clip.

20:27 And what's remarkable is that Sherman turns that request of those men for land to work for themselves into a government order. Special Order Number 15, it said that the government would take 400,000 acres that it had seized from the Confederacy and split it up among those thousands of newly emancipated people This becomes what is perhaps the most famous provision of the Reconstruction period, which we all know as 40 acres and a mule. President Lincoln approves the order but soon after he's assassinated and Andrew Johnson, a southerner who had once enslaved people himself takes over the presidency and quickly overturns it. And within a few short months this small amount of land that had been distributed to black people

21:22 was returned to white southerners. And there's that traumatizing sound effect again. Man, well, that's really nice of this Andrew Johnson to screw everybody and take it is it? That's not cool! You they took the land back from the black people and gave it to the Southerners How do you like that? It's like, oh yeah let me get that back and let's give it to the people that we've been fighting against. As I listen and now i'm like okay i'm rubbing my hands again i'm like oh she's on a right track here because of course we're going to talk about reparations right? Yeah! You would expect because especially with Andrew Johnson who I am pretty sure was a democrat

22:16 No mention of reparations in this whole episode or the 1619 project. Really? Throughout the entire thing, nothing at all? Nothing and the most interesting thing is Miss Nicole Hannah-Jones lays out one of the best definitions of reparation on The Karen Hunter Show. Reparations? What does reparations look like, Nicole Hannah-Jones? Is it going to happen or is it... Those are two different questions! This what I'll say I think the question of what reparations look like is not that challenging. Reparations looks like a cash payment to those who can trace ancestry, Sandy Darity whom you interviewed for your piece is kind of the chief economist and thicker on this.

23:07 can trace a descendant back to American slavery, you qualify for reparations and you have improved that prior 10 years prior to the discussion of reparation bill. You actually lived as a black person right so no racial dissolves and whatnot So it's that. I think that is actually pretty easy and I think reparations has to be two things, anyone who thinks reparation should not come in a cash payment is bought into the idea of white supremacy right? Wealth was extracted wealth needs to be gotten if I spend my whole reparations check at the Gucci store thats my damn business. like the notion that it's paternalistic to say black people can't be trusted to spend the money that they deserve for restitution for what was taken. Wow a lot in that minute 15 clip

24:00 I think that we need to file that under Evergreen. Yeah, not a bad idea. That we're going to return to? Yes definitely! So first of all was she joking when she said you have to prove that for the last 10 years you lived as a black person?! No, I don't think she was and what i think she means by that is if you take somebody say J Edgar Hoover who's been passing and then wants to show back up, you know. Okay all right when the checks are being cut... Right that so that won't be accepted? No that won't be accepted and a lot of I think we mentioned this before but a lot of the Boulle members yeah all power all passing

24:42 There's a lot of passing black people, that are passing for white. So if you've been passing for the white you can't come out of the woodwork by her definition and regulations. That's pretty interesting stipulation I mean so... If you are passing and you're living quote-unquote as a white person Mm-hmm, then you lose your you lose your ADOS certificate I mean You don't really of course because you still have it in you. You have it in you but if you're able to pass successfully This is the this is the logic behind and I'm on the fence about this one

25:32 Because that's a slippery slope. Yes, I understand her logic because she saying if you were able to live as a white person say hey I'm gonna use J Edgar Hoover again You haven't been impacted by the effects of slavery Because you've been living as a and that's that threshold of white black because we're not talking about skin color here We're talking about the privileges as if your white when your pure And you're accepted into society So I think that's what it... Yeah, well okay but I'm also on the fence about this. Like I said this is her definition but exclude that point everything else she says i pretty much agree with at that point um I can see where she's going and honestly if your family has been passing for white for say Hoover's kids Hoovers grandkids great-grandkid they're all white right

26:38 Yeah, they are. Would it be fair for them to show up and you've got all the benefits of passing for white but then you want to show up and collect the check out of the blue? I think that's what she...I'm projecting on her but that's how interpreted what she was saying. Unless we could just steal that, but other than that you see she's quite aware of reparations. Right but I just want to say one more thing so Cory Booker grew up with-I'm sorry to say his situation when i look at it two professors Ivy League upper middle class suburban he pretty much grew up with the privileges of a white person

27:27 This is where their parents. I think we're talking more about appearance than being affluent because you could take a How can I say this Cory Booker was never confused? Well, he's never visibly he's not confused for being a white man Here I'm gonna tell you what the slippery slope is and now maybe this will help me explain why it's bothering me because when you Because you're saying someone passed as white, that is... it's a color issue. Because it is clearly the color of their skin that enables them to live that way correct? You gotta- It's got to be a factor! Let me explain this to you and now a lot of black people can agree with me on this one and

28:31 Older white, older in church. There were always one of two families they appear like white people physically but they identified as black so it's not about appearance it's about you cloaking yourself and whiteness and you were successful at it And then you pop up out the blue when its beneficial for you to collect reparations I think that's the point of the 10 year rule understand I still just think that it's that particular the 10-year rule, that particular part is complicated because it still has to do with skin color even though it's not the main point of it but you can't pass if you don't look at the parts. That's just a fact

29:28 True. Like I said, this is very debatable. I don't think everybody that's pro-reparations is pro this point. Um... like I said, I can understand her logic behind it but It should just be removed from the conversation! It's like why are we all— Here's my maybe this God you really rattled me with this one Take it out of the conversation No take it out of the conversation It's ADOS PERIOD Because if you're gonna put stipulations in it, it sounds shitty. And exactly the way you said it is, well but you know if you were lucky and you didn't say it I'm paraphrasing. Well if you were lucky enough to be passable and now you're gonna show up the check FU! You know when the checks are being cut FU don't focus on that To me its like yeah your going to have those people how many really are there that are like that? What's the percentage? Oh you'll be surprised... Well this a good topic Is it thousands or tens of thousands of people

30:29 Where's my book at? Hold on one second. You got a book?! I've got a book! Alright, but you understand where i'm coming from right it's like why do you need to do that when the whole point is to get reparations and maybe the people who have been passing maybe they could be your allies and can talk with a white privilege the white people who need convincing Just saying. Well the problem with that is if you denied your identity and then you show up later when it's beneficial to you financially, I think that's the rub. I understand...I completely understand that

31:12 My rub is if reparations is the most important thing, don't make the first thing you say after reparations. You gotta have lived like a black person for 10 years because then you're just a dick! I got it we should have stipulations but if that's how you're promoting reparations? I think it's very annoying and short-sighted. You said something... you said if you lived as a white person No, let's say passable. Living as a white person. Reparations... No I'm talking about people who are literally checked white on their documentation so you can understand how that lets you into certain... Just stick with me for a second and then i want to hear the percentage that you think of ADOS that passes and lives as white

32:02 So let's say someone is, Ados has been living as white all the white privileges and but maybe possibly has felt really guilty their entire life. Because you know it's really not fair what I've done. Yeah, just giving an example Maybe this is not true at all But this is the thing that strikes me and then reparations come around This person very much like a closeted gay person might go oh my god I've been living this lie all my life And now I really want to be a part of it but now I'm getting punished because I took A way out that was seen as cowardly

32:42 And that's really what it is. You're kind of being told you're a coward because you knew it but didn't come out as it Does that make any sense? It makes sense, but I think its the fact of...You reaped all the benefits of portraying yourself one way reason now, the only reason now you want to identify as quote-unquote black is because it's beneficial to... so that makes you even a shittier person. I understand but think with me for a second the people, the examples you gave was J Edgar Hoover. I'm sure there are other examples of very prominent fake white people in society

33:40 who are at very high levels because they denied their true selves and were imposters, and now there's a real chance for reparations. Let's just say that's a real possibility. They could actually in their position be incredibly powerful allies so while I understand the hey man if the money is coming now you show up But I would say consider not making that such a huge point because there may be some people who pop up who can be Incredibly helpful towards the end goal. That's what I'm saying, right? I could understand your point but I'll Not it is the last Point on make on this particular just one subject how would our Jewish person Be viewed if they lived as a Nazi and

34:37 But then once the money shows up for Jewish reparations, they say oh no no no. You almost perfectly described George Soros because that's exactly what happened with him And you see how he is castigated for that? Do you see what he is getting for quote unquote his people You make a valid point there. All right, but it doesn't... I understand what you're saying! I understand your point you're saying they could be allies yeah my only point is and it's not to you my point is to uh miss Johnson uh what's her name Jones Miss Jones

35:20 Just go chill on that. That one point, just say hey you know here's the deal ADOS reparations and don't sit around with a bunch of with a bunch of ADOS laughing about how those douchebags won't get anything because if you didn't live it for 10 years we're gonna hammer you. I'm just saying, it's a negative approach where... You can always do that later! Let's get through it first and see who knows what will learn about people who have been living this way or not? I don't know but I understand what you're saying Mollie in my heart of course I understand what you're saying like hey bro screw that I got it

36:00 Right. And the point I want to make it from this whole thing is, and i'm glad we had this conversation Me too! But the point I want to make about this is she's so adamant about who should get reparations and she's knowledgeable on the subject But it's missing from a 1619 project. Yeah, well of course That's my thing is like are you gonna be as stringent to say who can get it and ten year rule? And all this but then when it's convenient for you You go, you know Silent Oh She goes coward its cowardly

36:37 So she's exactly like the tennis. It is called projection, it is called projection. Okay well we agree on that. Can you hit that one time for me in Dutch? Sure! Wat je zegt ben jezelf met je kop door de helft... You are what you say others are. Bingo Yes, that's exact- it's pure projection okay well we certainly agree on that and that she is a huge projector Well, let's go and hear we're going to listen to the Heritage Foundation. And they're gonna end Mr. Ben Shapiro has Alan Guzlo I think so. Guelzo? Yeah something like that

37:21 He's gonna give his right wing perspective on the 1619 and Mrs. Jones, excuse me? So let's talk about the 1619 project and the reward that was just given to it by the Pulitzer committee so there are serious holes in this project I've been discussing some of them it seems to me that the basic premise of the 1619 project is what the Pulitzer committee was rewarding here not the essay graced with a 500 word correction. The basic premise of the 1619 Project, having read the entire thing was that American history was founded in evil and basically that evil has infused the entire body politic in every aspect of American life. Do you think that's a fair assessment of the project? I think it nails it fairly accurately. First thing that the 1619 Project really would like to do is teach school children because that's really what they aimed at. Is that capitalism as a form of totalitarianism

38:16 That's the one essay, the second essay in the 1619 Project says this pretty plainly. Slavery is the model for modern American entrepreneurial capitalism. Second goal we should pay reparations for slavery they don't say this in a 1619 project but the lead editor of the 1619 project Nicole Hannah-Jones has said this and other places as though to reverse Lincoln's formula, that every drop of blood drawn by the lash had not been paid for by one drawn by the sword in the Civil War. So Alan... so much wrong with this clip! Now The Heritage Foundation is of course very right-wing

39:04 Very right wing and this is where the Republicans are a non starter for enticing black people People like this make it a non-starter for Black people to even consider voting Republican. Mm-hmm two things He said one he speaks as reparations as a terrible thing, but you know like I Like, you know what they really want? They want those reparations and we can't let that happen. And two he comes with the thing that Lincoln said to every blood every I'm paraphrasing here but every drop of blood that was lost from the lashes right there was shed it was like basically every drop of blood that was shared during this civil war bounced the books for all the blood that was shared during slavery

39:58 Well, we've heard in previous clips- Is that a real quote from Lincoln? Is that really what he said? This guy's a Civil War historian. So I'm taking him as his word but it conflicts with what we've heard. Lincoln was okay with giving slaves 40 acres and the mule and it only changed because he died right so This guy is kind of off base here, in my opinion. Well he runs the James Madison program you know this... He's very set in his fundamental ways and understanding of how the country came to be You're not going to change this guy's mind! He read what he read, you know? This is not the kind of guy that will ever waver from that in my mind

40:48 The reason why I brought up this clip was to say even he recognized reparations was missing from the 1619. Yes, and that Ms Jones there was...even though she's the lead editor she really doesn't do anything about it in the project itself which is so odd yeah he picks up on for sure So why is that? And this is where my wheels start turning. I'm like, huh...I've heard Nicole Hannah-Jones speak before. I've heard her be very adamant about reparations but when she gets his huge piece on slave multi-piece

41:28 in the New York Times to talk about slavery, one of the main topics is completely missing. And she goes right up to this line! Yes In The Land Of Our Fathers which is basically the genesis of slavery with the 40 acres and mule but she doesn't cross that line Now did you get a lot of pushback? I'm sure she didn't just say this here on The Karen Hunter Show but she must have said this or been quoted other places as not Not having mentioned reparations in the project at all. Has this been a real burden for her? An albatross around her neck?"

42:03 Yes, it was and she was called out by the ADOS political group. I have to specify For this Bob miss Yvette Carnell. I didn't catch I think got a clip it because they've been kind of redundant But she was she was called out for like oh You talked about everything except for reparations right and from the ados political group They were like you kind of stole our thunder No, with this piece. But you didn't carry all the way through right now This made me think back to she's been told what she can talk about and can't talk about well She works for The New York Times hello

42:43 This sounds very similar to what Cory Booker said. Oh, this is a throwback clip from last was it last episode two episodes 35 The reparations bill introduced for the first time in the Senate Thank you very much as my I Sponsored the Senate we're seeing progress on these concepts that we couldn't even talk about They weren't even being talked about reparation majors. That was it right there We couldn't even talk about him talk about it Right, so I think she had the same conversation like nah. Especially with the New York Times leaning so hard for the Democrats if you put that into the 1619 you have people lined up around a block to get it now your spreading this whole reparation narrative too

43:32 to the masses. So we have to find out who blocked that within The New York Times, I mean unless the Democrat party is literally on the editorial board which it may be... That's a possibility but you know we're going to dig into it so they had Zed Giuliani he was on The Hill one of our favorite beats and he explains what's wrong with The New York Times 1619 Project Earlier this week, the 2020 Pulitzer Committee awarded its prizes. One went to Nicole Hannah-Jones for an essay she wrote for The 1619 Project. So The 1619 Project attempted to chronicle the impact of slavery 400 years after the first slaves arrived in America and since publication has faced some criticism from historians Marxists and a lot of other different people so much so that the New York Times ultimately issued a correction with an editor's note to the project and the Pulitzer Prize winning essay itself

44:30 No, I didn't hear any of this. This is juicy yes, they had the correction. I have the correction here um I got notes everywhere man this thing is going, this is deep man. The correction was written by Jake Silverstein and he said today we're making a clarification to passage in the essay from the 1619 project that has sparked a great deal of online debate the passage in question states that one primary reason for colonists thought an American revolution was to protect the institution of slavery

45:06 The assertion has elicited criticism from some historians and support from others. Now I'll go down to the bottom, it said the five scholars that helped deepen our sense of this period's complexity One outcome of the 1619 project that we are grateful for is how it has shown all of us, historians and journalists alike, how important it is to continue to work together to illuminate the past. So yeah they had a long...they put a pretty long correction piece in here but yet still they won the Pulitzer. Well their people have been winning Puliters for the groundbreaking work they did on the Russian collusion case

45:46 They're not giving those back either. Right, so I just find it strange that you know... Maybe the Pulitzer is just a piece of crap? We'll illuminate that for you everybody! So let's go on to the second clip from The Hill. Yeah, it's great to be here. Absolutely! So Zed you were one of the first people I ever saw that was discussing the 1619 Project and this essay in particular just break for us down where the controversy was and i think just to be clear from the outset this is not like a right-wing thing The people who actually started criticizing it was the world socialist web

46:42 to be clear. Yeah, I think largely they took issue with a number of facts that were stated within the text one the actually opening essay that received the Pulitzer Prize made a number of claims most controversial which was that the defense of slavery was the impetus for the American Revolution now there is a book that posits that theory but the theory is not considered to be credible it never took off among mainstream historians So it seems like they're trying to put the British in a good light. It's upside down world is very interesting what's going on here? It's a lot of moving pieces here you have no reparations which she strong on outside of this piece, You have America being the bad guy and wanting to keep slavery as the reason why they fought the Revolutionary War

47:39 You win a Pulitzer even though it's full of factual... errors, omissions. Errors and omissions yes right this seems like a very political or from the New York Times I don't know I don't see why they would be political I'm shocked I tell you Wow so what is the end goal then? The end goal is just as always mind control brain programming it must be with the big heart Yes, yes and it even goes deeper than that. Oh my goodness okay? I'm glad I glad I scheduled five hours for today It's a more sinister so uh Let's get into the third clip from the hill

48:29 They basically cherry-picked information, in some cases got facts completely wrong. And then at the same time the Pulitzer committee decided that this was the best commentary of the year! Normally they don't award prizes to material that's considered not credible by experts in the field and the way that i've looked at this said is that the sixteen nineteen project really was an effort kind of by elite cultural taste makers it to say that their chief dividing line in america is race and it's not class and i think that that is why the world socialist web took such issue with as well was remarkable that they had a talk about reframing the future that they talked so little about the feature or the contemporary president uh... for instance they had an article about the wealth gap

49:11 It didn't really cite anything after the 1930s or maybe even after redlining. It didn't talk about social and economic reforms in the 1960's or 70's, it didn't talk about the fact that federal government set up multiple programs outlaid billions of dollars to address redlining How did those programs work? how do they not work I didn't talk about deindustrialization, changes in immigration, changes in welfare policy. The fact that for instance the family structure collapsed after civil rights reforms not before it. The family structure was actually stronger under Jim Crow than now. Wow there's a lot wrong with this but you know man we can get a Pulitzer for this show! I guarantee ya

49:49 I would think so because we talked about everything he just laid out they didn't talk about and We talked about the stuff that she talked about me if Esther. That's the standard hey put us on the list From what? I understand is really easier than then you think it just it sounds really important because yeah, no It's a Pulitzer. It sounds like a big deal But I think it's been diluted over the years It's like a Grammy or Oscar, right? I mean pretty much record companies embody things. The Grammys maybe Oscars... There are ways to do it but this is more like the Nobel Peace Prize than anything else. It's not that oriented towards the actual achievement it's definitely more political. I guess the point I'm trying to say with the Oscars and Grammy is if you want somebody be taken seriously

50:41 They gotta have one of those. Yeah, you give them a Grammy right quick yeah right and then it's like oh yeah grammy award winning blah blah blah and they push you at a certain level or gives you a certain clout uh I think this is the same way with the Pulitzer yes Yes It's clearly it's not about accuracy in reporting that we've got So I guess we'll let um Mr. Jelani wrap up with the final clip from The Hill. Right, that's exactly right I mean I think what bank is it that's sponsoring the series or what? Shell yeah I mean that just like says it all right so well sponsored by D. Ray McKesson

51:27 That event, by the way was in Houston which of course as you may remember was battered by Hurricane Harvey. And many of those underprivileged people who were just their lives were destroyed by hurricane and displacement that company has bears responsibility for that but I doubt Nicole Hannah-Jones is ever gonna write an article about Shell Oil and their responsibility with it would decline what's happening to underprivileged people in the city of Houston. Well we'll hold our breath waiting. We won't hold our breath on that one. The Leviathan Yeah, well thank you Zed. I mean you're not gonna hear this anywhere else and i very much appreciate your analysis on it so thank you Well this is very interesting because of course I immediately understand what... This is what You know uh..I've learned this term problematic fave And uh So this is the problem when you have any type of sponsorship and this is

52:23 so lame of the New York Times to allow all of this to happen. Now, was it... She personally was sponsored by Shell from Houston? The piece wasn't sponsored, was it? Was there any Shell Oil native ads or sponsorship around the 1619 Project itself? No no they definitely laid in the shadows on this one as far what was presented in the piece But I find it, one thing that I want people to recognize. Now these are the same type of people from the New York Times that will tell you, you know, people of color... Color People! Yeah thank you would they're impacted by fossil fuel and greenhouse gases and natural disasters and climate change

53:23 But then they'll get their palms greased by Shell Oil Company. Yeah, well of course in this case it's even worse because the Shell Oil Company... They're responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of OGA DOS in Africa Easy curry. And I'm sure, you like the way I phrase that? OGA Dawson Africa and that of course to see her sitting on it looking at it now on a brochure with little Shell logo above her head...I can see why people got a problem with that in general forget it then you've got the whole Green New Deal crowd and everything even though Shell pays for most of that as well but again

54:08 Again, it's again. It's politicization of stuff that really doesn't to me It doesn't really matter to what what the 1619 project is about or what its trying to do? It's all ancillary noise But its bad optics well go show you these people are disingenuous in there and their motives course they are duh Moving on to the Karen Hunter show she had dr. Greg Carr which me and him have had words Real oh, that's right. That's right I do remember this yeah he's not no fan of the mo he said Moe No Early on in my In my start up my was that on The Star Show is at the star show where that happened where they have actually it was on Howard University radio show I took my car over and called in That's right Right, right, right, right? We had a back-to-back

53:23 But then they'll get their palms greased by Shell Oil Company. Yeah, well of course in this case it's even worse because the Shell Oil Company... They're responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of OGA DOS in Africa Easy curry. And I'm sure, you like the way I phrase that? OGA Dawson Africa and that of course to see her sitting on it looking at it now on a brochure with little Shell logo above her head...I can see why people got a problem with that in general forget it then you've got the whole Green New Deal crowd and everything even though Shell pays for most of that as well but again

54:08 Again, it's again. It's politicization of stuff that really doesn't to me It doesn't really matter to what what the 1619 project is about or what its trying to do? It's all ancillary noise But its bad optics well go show you these people are disingenuous in there and their motives course they are duh Moving on to the Karen Hunter show she had dr. Greg Carr which me and him have had words Real oh, that's right. That's right I do remember this yeah he's not no fan of the mo he said Moe No Early on in my In my start up my was that on The Star Show is at the star show where that happened where they have actually it was on Howard University radio show I took my car over and called in That's right Right, right, right, right? We had a back-to-back

55:07 but him and Karen Hunter have a conversation on how you win a Pulitzer. Absolutely. I was waiting all week because since we talked last week, of course, you must have had a crystal ball because on social media you predicted that Nicole would win a Pulitzer. I thought the amount of work that went into 1619 and the reframing of history which people could argue whether it was 100% accurate or whatever but I thought the conversation started with the 1619 project around reframing America was so important and Pulitzer again. Yes, you said because I have one yeah we want to say Yeah, I want a pull it's as part of an editorial board on at the New York Daily News and prior to winning the year before my boss said We're gonna win a Pulitzer And so what? Yeah, no, but there was a plan right so you have to have

56:04 12 to 15 editorials, they had to be perfect. No typos. Most of them you know the Pulitzer board there doing their homework and reading but what they're looking for is a problem that is being solved or they are looking for something spins the world on its ass, right? Wow. Okay well geez what a racket! What did you catch there Mr. Curry? Well a couple of things first of all it's really important you got no typos because that I mean that's the bar you gotta get you gotta be able to do a spell checker if you can't operate Microsoft Word then you can't get a Pulitzer so there's for a lot of journalists are high bar

56:43 But then you gotta do the little jumping through hoops. You got to have 15 of those suckers perfectly spelled and you've gotta be solving a problem that doesn't need solving or even exists, and that's how you win a Pulitzer! A couple things with this clip... One, she misidentified herself that this thing might not be 100% factual. Right? She actually said whatever you know whatever doesn't matter as long as we're changing history reframing but you win a Pulitzer for Not being factual but you have to have all no typos That's the hell of a standard two

57:33 Ms. Jones is a frequent guest on Karen Hunter's show, if Karen Hunter has the formula... Now this is why I speculate If Ms. Karen Hunter has the formula how to win The Pulitzer maybe she gave Mrs. Jones the blueprint This Is How You Do It and then Karen goes onto prophesy that Nicole is going to win this thing And then she happens to turn around and win it. I find that very, the way I see this is and this is like a pure speculation on most part Karen and Nicole have a conversation where you know You got this in 1619 thing you know well you can win a Pulitzer if you don't make 15 essays No typos I know people you go ahead do that you know? This how its works This my, this how I think this works

58:39 Wow, okay. So there's I was just thinking about us for a moment Mm-hmm so this Pulitzer prizes you know that I think they're also doing podcasts now pull it There's going to be a Pulitzer for podcast mm-hmm Well we of course let me just see if that's correct what I'm saying here podcast Pulitzer because we're gonna put this to the test yes podcasts can win Pulitzers now and Okay, and they've announced it good. I'll put that in the show notes because You know what this show is solving a problem That I think they would really like there's no or not No, I think we could we can do it. Oh yeah We could dress it up to make us sound like we're superheroes and oh my gosh They're having wait

59:33 This is the conversation America should be having. See? If we just do that with that voice, this is the conversation America should be having! This podcast is very Pulitzer Prize winning. See? We can do this I think we got a shot. Well, i'll get right on that and Mr. Jelani's interview with the hill he brought up the fact that even the Marxists were pissed off at Nicole Jones. I found this interesting article on World Socialist website which is published by The International Committee of the Workers Party

1:00:12 Yeah, the Fourth International. Which I don't know what that all means! That's a pretty long title... The International is the Socialist Manifesto Hold on, go ahead continue off I'll figure it out for you But who was the first three? Because we're in the fourth one so... Okay, The Fourth International is a revolutionary socialist international organization There are the followers of Trotsky It's just an organization. Cool logo though, cool logo. This is the real left! Oh yeah... The hard left! They look at Bernie and they hang a left? Exactly. Well luckily I found a reader for my article and here it is. The New York Times 1619 Project

1:01:04 Nicole Hannah-Jones, Shell Oil and Mass Killings in Africa by Trayvon Austin and Bill Van Auken. 18th of December 2019 On Wednesday December 11th Nicole Hannah Jones lead author of the New York Times 1619 project delivered a speech in Houston to inaugurate the Emancipation Park Conservancy's lecture series depicting The Black Experience The appearance was part of a nationwide lecture tour in which Hannah-Jones is promoting the 1619 Project's reframing of the history of the United States as an unending racial struggle of whites against African Americans.

1:01:40 The American Revolution of 1775 to 1783 and the Civil War of 1861-1865, according to Hannah Jones were sham events unrelated to the struggle for equality and the eventual destruction of slavery. George Washington Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln were racist hypocrites dedicated to the defense of white supremacy Man America just sucks What a loser country, man. We're no good and that's thank you New York Times I feel better now Well they there is some hypocrisy with George Washington Thomas Jefferson in a of course And we're gonna point that out later in the show but did you recognize that voice? No Who was that?

1:02:30 Let's get to the next clip. I'll give you another shot. OK, in the next clip here we go. Hannah Jones' appearance in Texas was sponsored by the Houston-based Shell Oil Company. This is a U.S. subsidiary of oil and gas corporate giant Royal Dutch Shell which is confronting international public outrage over its involvement in massive human rights abuses in the African country of Nigeria The focus of protests has been Shell's collaboration with the Nigerian government in the suppression of the Ogoni ethnic group. The company currently faces multiple court cases over its complicity in the murder of thousands, including the Nigerian dictatorship's hanging in 1995 of the well-known Ogoni writer and environmental activist Ken Saro-Wiwa

1:03:12 Hannah Jones is unsparing in her condemnation of the moral failings of the democratic revolutions of the 18th and 19th centuries. She can barely contain her contempt for those who failed to leap out of the historical epoch in which they lived, and embrace the rhetoric of 21st century middle-class identity politics. But the unforgiving code of ethics she imposes upon the historic figures of the past does not seem to apply to herself." Well it sounds like a white girl that's all I could say. I don't recognize the voice That is one Mrs. Hold on a second, that's Dame Jennifer! No- oh that's our Dame Jennifer? Uh huh Oh my goodness This was value for value at work I thought this was an audiobook or some reading of it Oh my gosh this is fantastic she is perfect

1:04:09 Perfect, right? Yeah when we need something red and we don't have a clip. Yeah that's great! Okay yeah I was surprised by that now i know this is value for value at work folks because we called out last week we got a lot of volatile readers We did it was great At least had to be 10 if not one but at least ten But so I'm gonna thank everybody but yes, she came through and it helps the quality show immensely. I gotta tell you I was sure this was a professional from something as like why is my mo asking? I'm like what celebrity I'm trying to identify this voice Like it's really nice and I am also listening to what's being said like I don't game Jennifer of course

1:04:55 Right nice. We appreciate it yes, we do what we heard in this last clip is actually white supremacy at work This is the real white supremacy here yeah Let's just go through and hear what she says. Their involvement in massive human rights abuses in the African country of Nigeria, and they're working with the government. They are in collaboration with the Nigerian government in the suppression of the Ongani ethnic group This is this is what real white supremacy looks like the real one. Yeah, the real white supremacy yeah, yeah I mean, yeah because and that's when you when you call Everything white supremacy you take that emphasis off of this it even had a lynching It says here it says including the nigerian dictatorship hanging in 1995 a well-known agoni writer and uh environmental activist ken saro

1:05:59 Why we why what? Why were the things how I pronounce it. Yeah Wow, she's partying up Now you know I know people from shell to its Royal Dutch shell Although the Queen of England I think owns the majority of it now But yeah that this is not the optics you want And it's a head shakers too well You know the obvious Reasoning for this would be that Shell has guilt and they want to, to coin a phrase whitewash what's going on with them and their corporate history. Maybe or other than maybe they have other motives Oh wouldn't surprise me did you find anything?

1:06:46 Let's listen to the next clip. Shells history in Africa has long made it an international pariah, in the 1980s It was described as the worst corporate collaborator of apartheid South Africa Systematically violating sanctions to provide oil that fueled the racist regimes repressive apparatus It also carried out mining operations in the country including at its reed spruit coal mine where striking workers were beaten and forced back to work a gunpoint Its support for apartheid provoked an international boycott movement against the oil giant. Just two years ago, Amnesty International released an 89-page report titled A Criminal Enterprise? Shell's Involvement in Human Rights Violations in Nigeria in the 1990s." Yeah I think there has been a long running lawsuit over that too. There is couple of them but it has been in courts for very long time

1:07:41 And maybe that's what they're trying to do is deflect from those lawsuits? No, couldn't be. Maybe! Well at least the... The socialists think so, as they continue on this article. Shell's exploitation of oil in Nigeria goes back to the period of British colonial rule after independence it became the most important economic actor in the country with immense power over its government. Shells operations centered in Ogoniland located in the southernmost part of the country along the Gulf of Guinea

1:08:18 50 years of exploitation and Shell's continuous oil spills have left the region an ecological disaster, with its soil no longer viable for agriculture and its groundwater massively contaminated with carcinogens. The Ogoni people saw their livelihoods destroyed while they received nothing from the billions of dollars that Shell extracted from the region In the early 1990s, under the leadership of Sara Wiwa, MOSOP emerged to challenge the destruction of the region by Shell and the Nigerian government. As the protests grew, Shell called upon the government to provide security protection for its facilities while the company offered logistical support in deploying heavily armed police and troops against the Aghani people providing them with transportation salaries and even weapons

1:09:04 In some cases, those sent in to murder rape and torture wore uniforms bearing the Shell logo. Over the course of these operations it's estimated that 27 Aghani villages were raided leading to deaths as many as 2,000 people and forced displacement 80,000 more. Rape was employed a weapon to intimidate population and prisoners were routinely tortured It truly is a head-scratcher that this project got wrapped up with Shell. It's really like, do you have shit for brains? it's so easy to see what these guys are up to and Nigeria filed $1.1 billion lawsuit against Shell Oil and any oil in 2018 I think so far Shell has paid out 55 million to somebody

1:09:57 of the 1.1 billion requested, so there's... you know. And we've talked about these people being in a room and you get in the call, hey Cheryl calls you, hey we need to clean up this mess, we needed distraction and Mrs Jones complies! She's Coca spirits with colonizers now does she have any response to this that she did that do we have any and I'd love to know what she was thinking find anything anywhere oh she just let that slide huh And of course, I'm speculating here but i would assume with her political leaning she would consider herself a feminist as well. Because these kind of things go hand in hand but you're taking money from people who use rape is a weapon? Yeah with it with the uniform logo Hey everybody its your friendly show rapist here scary man how does that work

1:11:00 I tell you, it blows me away. And as you said and even in the article says meanwhile another lawsuit was brought by the Oguni villagers and friends of Earth Netherlands over the environmental devastation of the Niger Delta region has been fought by the company for the past decade with two planets dying in the meantime. Yeah, and it's a Dutch group that is doing part of this activism and that's because its partially Dutch company so yeah absolutely and its well known And Shell's not the only one. BP has done similar things, horrible in I think Pakistan or India but yeah so but in this case it's just interesting you that they would take this again is like look at all of the clean energy initiatives and foundations many of them you'll see shell right there

1:11:59 Well, this is where I really start to dig deeper. And before I get into this next set of clips continue on with this article We have to remind people who the Boulay is. And we have now stepped forward to have a discussion about the black male secret society known as Sigma Pi Phi, acronym The Boulay, B-O-U-L-A-Y. We will do our best to show you the information related to The Boulay that's what this lecture is about I could give the entire lecture and quote every inch of the documentation without looking at it.

1:12:45 responsibility my night to show you the information so that you could look at it with me and double affirm the fact that Much of our black press as much as we like it Has not been honest in talking about this group of black men or they respected very highly And never speak negatively against it And who was that again? We've played this clip, right? That's Steve Coakley. Right Okay He's the he's the OG on the boulé right and as you heard him say that the press has been silent On the boulé but I'll go one further than that and say that the press is Pretty much made up of the boulée as we pointed out in the previous 36 episodes this podcast

1:13:33 And just for a reminder, we're gonna let Steve Coley continue to remind you of the other factions of the Boule that are associated with the Boule. And all the Greeks! The Alpha, the Omega and the Sigma, show your right. The AKA, the Zeta, the Sigma Gamma Rho and the Delta They will all be informed publicly. Please do not have a public manifestation of the Greek thing Don't have a big dinner, don't have a big reception Don't put it in the paper that you're coming Because I suggest to you That we are going to start to visit you at your things and ask you to prove your Greek things on the spot

1:14:26 So we make a suggestion that we're in the process of penetrating a group of circles, and that these circles are webs which are numerous organizations just beyond the boule. I'd forgotten about that. Did they ever penetrate to the circles and expose them properly? He did, but this is why I continue the work. Exactly exactly. This is where the rabbit hole became the bullet hole. Let's get into it. Okay let's continue with number 26

1:15:13 The event in Houston underscores the fraudulent and class character of the 1619 Project. Hannah Jones' appearance on a platform paid for by Shell Oil makes her politically and morally complicit in the oppression of the Ogoni people Her staggering hypocrisy and moral blindness is not merely a personal characteristic. It is typical of an ultra-egotistical, self absorbed, and affluent petty bourgeois social stratum determined to make as much money as possible regardless of where it's coming from It's not at all clear how Hannah-Jones' racialist interpretation of history, which claims that North American slavery and all subsequent forms of discrimination in the United States stem from white people's allegedly inbred and intractable hatred of African Americans would serve to explain her own apparent indifference to the crimes of shell oil against modern day Africans. As they pointed out here where they say the bourgeoisie

1:16:09 Yes, that pretty much explains the this one sentence explains the boulay in a nutshell And it says it is typical of an ultra egotistical self-absorbed and affluent petty bourgeoisie social stratum Determined to make as much money as possible regardless of where it comes from. I Sounds about right, yeah. That's the definition of the Boulle up and down. Well we want to see who that bourgeoisie elite is and I think this next clip 3.1 will tell us who we're dealing with

1:16:46 Shell used Hannah-Jones, who was only too willing to be used as part of its public relations operation aimed at diverting attention from the company's crimes as they face fresh exposure. Sponsoring an appearance by Hannah Jones allows Shell to posture as an intrepid corporate fighter against racism. Moreover, the 1619 project's obsessive focus on race conceals the essential economic interests that underline the business practices of Shell Shell executives obviously sponsored the event in the expectation that endorsement of the 1619 project would counteract the impact of ongoing lawsuits, and they could not have been disappointed by the results of their investment. Everything went exactly as planned. Shell basked in a moment of public adulation as the event moderator Melanie Lawson, a local media personality prefaced her introduction of Hannah Jones with a shout out

1:17:39 I want to take a moment first to recognize tonight's presenting sponsor. And you might know this name, it's a giant in our community, Shell Oil! If someone is here from Shell Oil will you please stand or wave? Or all of the above? Do we have some shell folks? There we go The audience responded with an ovation In which Hannah Jones joined in Yeah, don't be shy about this. Show people stand up so we can thank you! We appreciate you. We know this event would not have been possible without your very generous donation and we appreciate your continued support of Emancipation Park Conservancy Alright that is Dame Jennifer's sweet spot now

1:18:15 Oh man, she nailed that read. She killed it! Hey folks any of these cool shell folks here? Yeah exactly very funny excellent I could not do that the same way. No no imagine doing it for real in front of the shell people let's even crazier you'd do that Well some names popped up here too. Melanie Lawson, well I had to go and look up Miss Melanie Lawson and let me open her file here. Uh oh you got a file in Mo Central? Yes put on alert okay miss Melanie

1:18:58 Lawson. This is from her bio and she says despite the glitzy circles she mixes in, and no matter how far away from home she travels, Melody's favorite stories are about the Houston rich multi-ethnic communities especially the stories about children and those quietly working to make a difference in their lives She also belongs to the Houston chapter of Lynx and aka Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority. Of course! Now she's a newscaster? Is that what she does? Yes, for the people who don't know The Lynx is the female version of the Boulet so and another thing popped up here let me go back down I'm doing all this on the fly so just bear with me This Emancipation Park Conservancy

1:19:48 That word, I was like conservancy? Let me look that up. So that is a body concern with the preservation of nature specific species or natural resources That's what oil companies are good at preserving. All of the above! And what species are you talking about? Are you talking about so-called black people here? Yeah, I guess so... Another thing is that commission or group officials controlling the Port River drainage basin Latin this is a definitely an oil company or energy company word And it's also as the conservation of wildlife and the environment so I went looked up this Emancipation Park Conservancy, and the leadership of it mm-hmm all right Going down to list going down to list the chairman of it Is one mr.

1:20:47 Raymond Manning, and he's a energy guy. He's the CEO of Partners for Energy of North America and if you go down to his bio Manning has served on the board of the Urban League Young Professionals and currently active in the Houston Area Urban League which is Boulay. Next on the list It gets better. Hold on the vice chair chairwoman is Jacqueline W Bostic I says here she would also serve as the national vice president of Jack and Jill of America

1:21:25 That's the children boulet. It's the mini boulet! Yeah, this is how you do it. The Jack and Jill? I had never heard of the Jack and Jill. Oh we're about to go all the way down a rabbit hole. Oh brother fantastic. And she also has been active in the Delta Sigma Theta sorority. Next is the treasurer that whether might who holds the money is Yvette E Mitchell. And it says Yvette, Yvette is a 20 year veteran of Chevron another oil company and it says here she's technology chairman for the Western area, The Lynx and Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority

1:22:12 and a 22 years of consecutive service for the AKA. So that's who makes up this Houston Emancipation Park Conservancy. Yeah, these are full-time jobs! That's what they do is to as you already pointed out is to balance out the destruction that often comes with the harvesting of natural resources it's in dirty business Mm-hmm, and they go into these communities and abilities of you know the Conservancy is like a basically a I have some background that it says they and this comes from the

1:22:52 Business Insider, it says the Emancipation Park Conservancy which was established in June 2015 to oversee a century-old city park with the same name within the City of Houston has selected its first Executive Director and that's Lucy Bredman. And she was appointed by Raymond Manning. And then an article itself it says companies in this article Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated. Can't make it up, this is great! So now we understand who I think that's how it goes. Sheryl Oil says we need some coverage these Boulay members say okay we need to find some coverage they found a 1619 project they funded

1:23:47 They tell Miss Hannah Nicole, no you can't talk about reparations though. That's no good and New York Times complies because that's no good for the political timing of it and she complies. Yes so that's how this whole thing works uh and we have a final clip from the article if you want to go ahead and play 4-2 Moreover, Hannah Jones' association with Shell is of an entirely voluntary character. Jefferson and Lincoln were born and lived in a historical situation in which slavery was a major element of the economic structure of the North American and world economy What objective historical factors have compelled Hannah Jones to associate herself with – and profit from – collaboration with Shell Oil?

1:24:34 What excuse does she have other than personal self-interest for appearing on a platform provided by Shell Oil? Having promoted herself as the avenging angel of American history, Hannah Jones is obligated to reveal all the facts related to her participation at an event sponsored by Shell. Did she receive any form of remuneration for her appearance in Houston? Why is she serving the publicity needs of a corporation branded as a criminal enterprise complicit in the murder rape and torture of African men women and children Okay, so very loaded there. I do have to interject some reality that many, many non-profits typically one million dollars and less are funded by corporate philanthropy. Corporate philanthropy is...and it's interesting because this comes very much from the same group of people who want to protect everybody

1:25:37 And so, oh you're shamed as a corporation into doing things for the greater good. Now almost every corporation does things for their community So there's, in Austin we have a lot of building construction companies and they support the Ronald McDonald House. And they have budgets specifically for that and it makes sense if you keep your community healthy and vibrant you're going to be able to build more so it's not abnormal Dell, the computer company here in Austin has huge foundations who in turn give their money to small nonprofits to do all kinds of little things

1:26:19 So this is taking place at Shell in all different areas. It is cherry-picking to say, oh this is the one and I can't fault Shell for... This how the business is raised? How all businesses are run? You take out as much insurance, public relations insurance as possible. I mean look at the in the 80s and 90's specifically look at Reebok and Nike with the human rights now pushback for you know tiny children gluing their damn sneakers together And how horrible those conditions were etc etc etc In this case it's Miss Hannah Jones

1:27:08 could have chosen from any number of very appropriate corporations for their philanthropic attachment. Dell is a great example, so I too am very interested what... Is she really that stupid? Or was there some huge prize for her to do this?" Was she really that stupid or was that big biscuit really that big? They always give me a biscuit on my birthday. I bet you had a whole hunk of butter, a whole stick of butter in that butter biscuit!

1:27:50 My problem as with all the things I bring on this show is the hypocrisy. Oh sure now This will be the same person to tell you about the um The patriarchal system white privilege white privilege rape culture how environmental and God fossil fuel impacts people of color worse than anybody else. Thank you! And then she takes a check and you're not even allowed to talk about reparations? Now did she take, do we know if she took a check? Do we have any further reporting on this? No the reason why I'm saying you take a check is this... maybe not directly from Shell

1:28:39 Well, I'm sure she's being compensated by the New York Times. And the New York Times is being compensated by Shell. Yeah you're right. So and you look at all of the players out of Houston there's something funny going on but i digress But bottom line is this type of funding of projects That typically has a downside which is that I think the beauty of our show here is we don't have to deal with all of that now, Of course We're not traveling first-class to Houston and hanging out and drinking in the caviar's ready for us. But It ruins stuff it ruined stuff. I don't know how she can live with herself quite honestly

1:29:29 I don't either and i'm glad you brought it up about the value for value and who really supports us. So, I think that's a great segue into our donation segment! I like new money. I don't know if you do but I hate old money that's wrinkled and dirty and got all the diseases on it. I like new money and when I give things to people I like to give stacks of money It's fun You ever had a stack of new money? Have ya? You haven't?! Have you? A little stack. Oh! And so I made the big stack where it was brand new and I like brand new money, I just don't want any money around me that's not...I'd almost rather have a new one than an old 20. Now that's kind of dumb isn't it but there is something about new money that excites you You like hundred dollar bills? Oh yeah, I like good money too

1:30:28 Most beautiful thing on earth is $100 bill. I ain't seen a woman as good-looking as 100 dollar bill There's something about a big site That's right everybody it is time to thank our producers for episode number 37 of mo facts with Adam Curry we're coming up on on our honor annual in in a bit here Yeah, it's moving pretty fast. This is a show where as we just discussed there's no commercial interest that paying us to say anything There's no advertising We also don't have to do any meetings but to keep the work going we do need support

1:31:04 And that is not just financial, it's all kinds of support that people can do. And this is really what the beauty for value is something you may do for us could be incredibly valuable to the show our show maybe very valuable to you and only you can determine what that means so we like to say considerate two hours you could have gone to a movie You might have spent $50 for your drinks and your tickets if you took a date Was the last or when we're done? We're an hour-and-a-half into it or so, but after two two and half hours was that the same value or not It doesn't matter all we care about is that you listen Have a good time and return some value from time to time in our top executive producer for today is a shining example Dame Jennifer Buchanan

1:31:53 Who sent it? I'll just read the note here that we got from her. See, another cool thing about this show... Everybody's doing AI and automation We're turning that ship around! We're going from robots to chicks And she says, I promise not to make it sound like Dvorak's Law and the 900 number ad. She has done other work for us and for our tribes so we value this as priceless Jennifer thank you so much for your first valuable contribution and of course you are one of our two executive producers for today's MOFAX with Adam Curry episode 37

1:32:39 Also in the executive producer category, and remember these are real credits. You can use them anywhere credit to recognize that and you can put them on your CV on your resume get jobs or impress people With $55.66, the anonymous film student says, Hey gents I've been listening from day one and feel bad for not donating but i get so much value from this show that i actually cited Charles Woods writing in the movie theater quote from episode 28 in an essay! Oh this is great... The subject which i developed from this quote was Media's most important function is to serve as a pressure release valve for society. I got a B plus on the paper and have this podcast to thank!

1:33:26 Sorry for the long note. I just finished my semester on Monday and got hired at an entry-level job at a post production facility So, I'm pretty drunk. Thanks for all you do. I wish it wasn't so broke right donate more Semper Fi says the anonymous film student and possibly member of the Marines $55 60 thank you You're in the credits as such and we really appreciate it Our first associate executive producer is Style and Design at $50. Found Mo Fax to the Grimerica show, there you go Mo great appearance I forgot to mention that it was a couple weeks ago wasn't it? A couple weeks back he did the Grimerica show It was right before I went down with this sore throat That's right okay so the month ago some while back

1:34:09 found MoFax through the GrimErica show, which is funny because I'm an avid listener and donate to no agenda. I've listened to several episodes and have really enjoyed them all especially episode 32 No Sea Bully that was a favorite! I will continue to work through the backlog as you produce new episodes absolutely And thank you again for your support. James Niemeyer supports us with $36 and says, hey Moe last donation when I wrote quote You were a little hard on Diddy last night? I was making a reference to the meme about the Leave it to Beaver show did you ever watch leave it to beaver Yeah of course Wow

1:34:46 I hadn't thought about it that way actually. Okay, though that makes sense It goes like this G ward don't you think you were a little hard on the beaver last night? Sorry for the voice I didn't have enough room on go ahead no, I made since now was our got in Once we get that yeah, it's I think you need the voice to go along with it Didn't have enough room on the cash app to explain it all. Anyway, I don't know if the joke translates very well across cultural lines but trust me It was very funny in my head Loving the show Woosahs for all! I'd say that it definitely, Leave It to Beaver definitely crosses all cultural lines. Torben Peterson $33 33 cents no note but magic numbers are recognized and appreciated Connor Lawrence also 33 33 in the morning gents i think my note from last week never got sent sorry for the mix-up just the usual gratitude with a few questions for y'all hope you two and your family are healthy yes we're all great thank you question from Mo

1:35:52 Do you plan on doing an episode on the following topics? Religion in the ADOS community and Malcolm X similar to the Martin Luther King one. Yes, yes they're both. Question for Adam have you seen the documentary Close Encounters of The Fifth Kind if so do you think this is a deep state Nuge or is it legit you two are the only ones I can get an accurate answer from on that well? I'm just going to guess. I have not seen it However, I'm going to search for this right now close encounters of the fifth kind and if this has anything to do with these star Academy then yeah, I'll probably say I think it's more entertainment than anything but let me see who produced this thing a

1:36:46 Is this, do you know anything about this Moe? No I- This is news to me. I think I may have to look at it...I thought it might be these guys who were always there all over the they're on Rogan I'll have to watch it. I'll get back to you, but if it's a Star Academy which I can't see offhand so might not be Then I'm very skeptical those guys are entertainers Goes on to say It's been a long road for most of us But I feel in my bones that the storm is passing and we'll see the sunshine soon In 1st John, he wrote that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the word Was god. The word can be used for good and for evil But the onus is on us to choose for good to exit our mouths and enter our ears That is why I mean it literally when I say that what you two do Is the Lord's work and no matter how deep the rabbit hole takes you God brought you there for a righteous purpose

1:37:47 Myself and the rest of the listeners are living proof of this, and I thank you for this eternally. Can i get a goat woosah? WUSAAA! WUSAAAA! WUSAAA! That goat wusa for himself and Elissa, and for everyone out there who needs it. And Moe could you please bless me with the real Moe karma not the take that karma I needed from the source The Sultan of SWAT The Colossus of... The Colossus Of Thought The man we all come to hear every week MOE KARMA So exciting

1:38:26 Connor, thank you very much. Very nice note $33.33 from you and that's appreciated Michael Marengo $28.50 also wants a WUSA goat jingle coming up this donation is an honor of my grandmother she was our Italian-American big mama in New Orleans almost everything he said about the big I said about the Big Mama episode applied to her even down to having sugar and pressure. At the end of the show when i heard Bill Withers' Grandma's hands, I had to pull over and see what I could afford to donate The song means so much me because my dad sang that at her funeral

1:39:02 By the way, if Adam can knight producers you should be able to give an honorary degree in ADA studies or something like that. Keep up the great work Michael Marengo! Very nice note Michael thank you and here is your goat Woosa! And rounding out our list for today of people who have supported and thus also produced the show Shazier, shazier, shazier $20 value for value V4V is the note Barbet Bonanza no note but twenty dollars. Thank you No note also from G McDonald 1892

1:39:42 There's some code for you Ken with three dollars and 33 cents value for value for the best podcast in the name of known universe and $2 but no note from Michael McGuirk, and we thank all of these producers who have supported us for this show And of course were many more to come This episode 37 of mo facts without him curry and you can support us Oh what I need to do is that I get his the final yeah We got the final wusses in there right yes You can support us at go to mofax.com this is where you can find out all about the show of course links to other work that we do most YouTube stuff as well and If you want to go to the donation page directly, you can go to Mo fund me calm It takes you straight into the MO facts comm donation page mo e f u n d m e dot com and thank you all so much for supporting mo fax with Adam Curry

1:40:40 Can you do me a quick favor before we continue on can you give everybody else? Mo karma, I'm sending you tons of good ass energy. Take that take that take that You've got karma Well the 1619 project gave me an opportunity to address one of the most misunderstood people and documents in The slave narrative. Okay, that's mr. Abraham Lincoln very good Good alright so there's top five things and we have a list here five things you may not know about Abraham Lincoln One thing is Abraham Lincoln was not an abolitionist Did you did you know that? You wouldn't know it from the schooling in the education in the stories I heard It was the man with a long hat he freed the slaves

1:41:41 Right, it says in a three hour speech in Illinois in the fall of 1854 Lincoln presented more clearly than ever his moral and legal economic opposition to slavery. And then admitted that he did not know exactly what should be done about it within the current political system and contrasted that Abolitionists knew exactly what should be done. Slavery should be immediately abolished and free slaves should be incorporated as equal members of society, all right? Number two, Lincoln did not believe blacks should have the same rights as whites. Did you know that?

1:42:20 No, Moe. The man with the hat freed the slaves! I don't understand... He was the 16th president of the United States he said something about four score and seven years ago and he freed the slaves can you get that through your head? And was he a Republican oh my gosh that's where it gets confusing Oh he's the party in Lincoln no they're the party at Lincoln You might want to reconsider that term or being referred to as that yes After this little segment that we have here, it says, though Lincoln argued that the founding father of the phrase all men are created equal. And by the way this is from The History Channel if people want to know the source. It says although the phrase all men are created equal apply to blacks and whites does not mean he thought they should have the same social and political rights

1:43:11 It says his views became clear during an 1858 series of debates with his opponent in Illinois, Stephen Douglas who had accused him of supporting Negro equality. Oh no! We can't have that. In their fourth debate at Charleston, Illinois on September 18th, 1858 Lincoln made his position clear I will say then that I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races unquote

1:43:49 Oh, hold on a second. My heart is breaking! That can't be my honest Abe Yes and before we go into getting to three four or five um let's just get into some clips on Abraham Lincoln Title in the book is Abraham Lincolns white dream what does that mean? It means that contrary to what most people think Abraham Lincoln's deepest desire was to deport all black people and create an all white nation. It sounds like a wild idea now, it is a wild idea but from about 1852 until his death he worked feverishly

1:44:44 to try to create deportation plans, colonization plans uh... to send black people either to Africa or South America or the islands of the sea on December 1st 1862 in which he asked Congress to pass three constitutional amendments one- to buy the slaves Second, to declare free all people who had actually escaped. But the third one his proposed 15th amendment asked Congress to allocate money to deport black people to another place. This leads to number three. He's speaking about number three Lincoln thought colonization could resolve the issue of slavery so he wanted a bias and ship us off

1:45:37 How do you like that? You can't be speaking the truth. This is not the story of Abraham Lincoln, you're talking about some other guy No this is from Mr. Lerone Bennett Jr He wrote that book when he was... He wrote that book about Lincoln when he was like 80 or something. He was getting up in age I think wasn't it Right! It's written as if from 2000 Okay Yeah So that's number four, and I guess we can continue on and let Mr. Bennett enlighten us more about Abraham Lincoln. And I make the point also an almost everything I say in here I take from Lincoln or from documents of the time it was not just something he wanted to push black people out He had an idea of this great giant vacuum sound Black people leaving and white people from all over the world

1:46:38 coming here and creating this all-white nation. As a matter of fact, I say as you know in his I Have A Dream speech at Alton Illinois in 1858 he called for a haven, the white haven for free white people everywhere the world over now these are Lincoln's words and the interesting thing about that is that he underlined these four words free white people everywhere He underlined them This was his I have a dream speech. He was passionately committed to deporting black people and creating a white nation, let me say in an extenuation

1:47:22 He believed that was the only way to solve the race problem. I found that offensive and strange, but he believed that was the only way to solve the race problem. Over and over again, he did not believe black people could live together in equality in the United States of America All right, I have a couple questions you mean I know you for a little while now And I of course am not thinking that this is news to you that you that this is a great big discovery No. Why is it that? This is so I mean I don't want to answer my own question but mm-hmm But who has been standing up and saying this about

1:48:10 loudly, you know except for Bennett jr. on C-SPAN you know it's like is there anyone of modern stature who says hold on a second this is not exactly the way it went? No! I'll see your question and i'll raise you one more. Why was our 44th president the first black president quote-unquote for first black president to be elected sworn in on Lincoln's bible? Well, that's how far the narrative goes. Optics! That's what I'm saying. Why do we... Wow, that's a very good question and just to speak to one of the letters that we saw in the donation segment in black churches where this is inside baseball folks so come closer um We have watch night service

1:49:09 Where that's kind of like, oh Lincoln on New Year's Eve, Lincoln decided to sign freedom slaves. Right? That's the narrative. And it's ingrained in us that he is the great emancipator. Like I said, he came in with his top hat and sent all the good guys down there to free the slaves. Hold on a second! It was just they cut off the clip. He said free the slaves. He said free them! Free the slaves! Back to Africa! Well if we have to free the slaves, let's put that in proper context. If you really gotta free them... Then we might as well free them over there? Right they don't want to be here anyway We got it send em on over to Africa or Thailand or something I dunno Now now hold on a second from the thinking of the day i'm sure that

1:50:09 the Illuminati white people, our 16th president included. I'm sure that was the thinking like clearly they don't want to be here listen what was Lincoln's wife's name? Mary? Listen Mary clearly these black people don't want to be here let's free them back over there can't you just see that happening? I see it of the day right? Of the day! Maybe, but like I said he didn't really... and he's quoted as saying this if he could have freed the slaves if you could have won the war or ended a war without freeing slaves He would've done that. Yeah So I don't think he was losing any sleep over deporting them And isn't that amazing? Like yeah thanks for all your free labor on it You can see your way out now Now so where was-I'm sorry to do this to you But where was the 1619 project on this

1:51:07 Well, they didn't see Lincoln in favorable and we spoke about it in previous clips. They said that he was a part of white supremacy right so they don't they don't view him and I just want to bring context that they raised that question Okay And then you here's the problem when you were 1619 when you discredit that project You kind of discredit all, even right. And that's very dangerous." Yes yes because this because apparently they had part of that right and appropriately so but they dressed it up in a whole storyline...that just what? Right

1:51:48 So we have Mr. Allen Guzzo, that spoke for the Heritage Foundation he revisits the MoFAC show and he speaks on the Emancipation Proclamation It was a military proclamation Lincoln is issuing the Emancipation Proclamation in his constitutional capacity as the commander-in-chief of the armed forces It is a war powers proclamation because it is presumed in the Constitution, its not specifically spelled out but its presumed that when the constitution designates the president as commander-in-chief. It also clothes him with certain war powers That phrase War Powers is not actually in the Constitution But the assumption has been if you're going to be the commander-in-chief there are certain more powers that pertain to that role

1:52:43 It was as a war powers proclamation that Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation it is as a war powers proclamation that the Emancipation Proclamation declares free all The slaves then in Confederate controlled territory in the south Did you catch that yeah at the very end uh-huh, yeah, let me just roll it back so everyone else can catch it Mom this here. I think it's about here formation It is as a war powers proclamation that the Emancipation Proclamation declares free all the slaves then in Confederate controlled Territory in the south yeah He didn't free all the slaves no No, you didn't follow the law

1:53:35 No, he freed them in the areas where he had no control over. It was a military tactic! Damn... I didn't know that either. Let's destabilize the South by putting out this proclamation and you know as a form of propaganda and when the slaves see it in the south they'll leave their post as slaves come running north that'll destabilize all the efforts that they are providing to the Confederacy and it'll be a big headache for you know, for the South. Right! While we hold on to our slaves in Union States This is so... It truly was a war tactic Exactly Wow Did did you know all this Moe? Are you just schooling me is that what you're doing here showing up once a week No no well

1:54:35 I feel stupid. I feel really dumb, I didn't know this." You shouldn't you should not feel stupid because this is the educational narrative and everybody just complies to it to the point where our 44th president who of being so-called black lineage was sworn in on the- and a constitutional lawyer, let's not forget that. Was sworn in on Lincoln's Bible and when I saw it I was like... That was another telltale sign. I was like oh you're about optics not about truth. I am going to purchase Forced Into Glory Abraham Lincolns White Dream from Maron Bennett Jr., that's probably gonna be something I'll enjoy reading

1:55:26 And the point I want to bring up about his book was he like he said, he uses Lincoln's words right? It's not any speculation. There's not any well...I can take this out of context or maybe he meant it this way He underlined these words. He wanted him create America as a white nation That's the best part! Let me make sure I don't forget this! Who knew?! It's like an old yellow highlighter from back in the day Wow I'm sure people are saying, well Mo Allen he's a right wing talking head. So let's go to NPR and their take on emancipation

1:56:03 Well, what the Emancipation Proclamation was a presidential proclamation and it was part of the war plans. So that in essence what the Emancipation Proclamation did was Lincoln realized that two things were happening one is that there was a worry that European nations might support the Confederacy But there was also a worry about, how do we get more and more people to fight for the Union cause? After the initial year people were saying, well you know what I'm not sure if I want to fight for this. Suddenly Lincoln realized that he could have an impact on the South by taking away workers and labor from the South encouraging people to then come North join the Union Army so therefore you'd have more soldiers and add a moral tinge to the war. So all of that was behind Lincolns thinking when emancipation was issued

1:56:51 I think that an NPR, that they move to these types of reports and I'm not exactly sure how long ago this was done or what the context of it was. But having Lincoln being such a hero... for just add the narrative right? The one I grew up with Lincoln, hero freed the slaves fabulous guy very iconic looking great got a beautiful memorial for him so that's the story we're sticking to it but as more and more people understand and i think that's really what happened in the past election possibly I would go back to 2008 election

1:57:35 that Lincoln was a Republican had to be countered. And I think that's what you're getting here, is like we just... Because why else do it? Especially as NPR? To discredit him! Why Republican? I think that is underway. I'm not sure how old this clip was but I've been noticing this for awhile. Yeah because like I said the Republicans always like to use two- This is the two talking points When Republicans tried to communicate, and I'm not saying all. I'm talking about the Republican political machine Yeah when they try to communicate to black people They say two of two things one you know with a party of Lincoln in And two you know MLK was a Republican don't you

1:58:30 Which we explored that too while he went Democrat, but I want to point out one thing about the word emancipation. Notice when they talk about us so-called black people ADOS foundational black native blacks however you want to say it they always use the word that were emancipated not liberated. Ooh yes of course very big difference too yeah emancipation means your giving your freedom White Americans were liberated from England because they took their freedom. It's interesting, you're nailing it again! I'm looking at the definition here and there is a sense of the first definition the fact or process of being set free from legal social political restrictions

1:59:26 But then the second part is the freeing of someone from slavery, and it's an example is the early struggle for emancipation. So that really means like the early struggle to have someone set us free Right. That's... words matter, man! Words do matter! Yeah and that's a crappy ass word You'll never hear the word liberty or liberation or anything used like that when you talk about the Civil War Or black people in America It's always emancipate Even though we were not emancipated Well if you were slaves in the Confederacy you were emancipated but yeah So I just want to point that out That's a good one, I like that

2:00:12 So if you want to continue on with the second clip from NPR. What about the timing of it? Why did it come when it came, on that day at that time and as you were just telling us The US was already two years into the war by the time it was signed why that timing Well what's clear is Lincoln felt that he could end the war and restore the union without ending slavery That would be okay for him But by the time the Emancipation Proclamation is issued, Lincoln realized that he had to do something bold. And part of the timing was that he had been working on this for the whole summer but he realized that he didn't have the sort of moral power to let this go until there was a Union victory because after all what it happened was if he announced the Emancipation Proclamation and then there was a battle where the Union lost it would seem like just words on paper

2:01:06 So what he did was, he waited to release the Emancipation until after they won the victory in Antietam in 1862. That then made it seem, in the minds of many Europeans and not that the Union was winning and gave more power, more moral authority to the Emancipation. My boy was a strategist! Yeah, and that's basically what we're doing. We gotta wait till we get some momentum when the news goes out... And this is serious because I'm gonna put myself into that time period as a black person being enslaved right? All right. Newses are coming! Oh you know the Union soldiers won their last battle

2:01:53 And you know, and Lincoln's trying to set us free. That makes me think okay they're winning so I'm more likely to run to freedom now You see how we were treated from the right from the example that gave in in this 1619 project itself But and you've seen it in glory Glory has a good depiction of how Union soldiers and I know is all fictionalized but It wasn't all roses, you know. No no they crossed the bridge and said screw it blew up the bridge and see ya later! Right And often times the black union soldiers was used as cannon fodder Yeah But

2:02:38 Yeah, it was all strategic. It wasn't like oh my heart is torn for these poor black people and I have to do something about it you know? Well that's more...I'm losing the war in the first... This is such a letdown as a white person we have not done any good here We're just trying to win the war Yeah, and if you read it if you listen to the first NPR clip he says that the interest in the war from the north was kind of like they were losing steam. They're like, You know what? We got a spice up my parents. It's still worth thing I don't really want to fight for this didn't make any sense so I guess he was trying to gain you know get the momentum back

2:03:18 Well, we have Allen. Another clip from Allen and he's gonna give us the last piece of information that we need to have on the Emancipation Proclamation Now it's important to notice what the proclamation doesn't do fully as much is what it does The Emancipation Proclamation strictly speaking does not free all the slaves It frees the slaves in Confederate held territory Which looks a little strange. That made the London Times make the comment that in those places where Lincoln does have uncontested authority, places like the border states Kentucky, Maryland Missouri and Delaware he doesn't free anybody but in the places where he doesn't have any authority or at least not the muscle to back it up there he declares people free

2:04:08 And the London Times thought that was terribly funny. Okay, and no one else did because it was very clearly understood That as commander-in-chief issuing a war powers proclamation He could only issue that proclamation to cover those areas which were in rebellion which were at war Wow This is great I love here. I love learning this this is really fantastic Yeah, so next time somebody tells you that the Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves. You could take them down. Yes! Well I'm sorry surely you mean the war proclamation? The emancipation...the War Order Emancipation Proclamation. That's how you start it.

2:04:58 I want to give you a little example. So, like I always point out my interest in history and these things were really driven by my black history class I took with Dr Mosley one of my professors and this is one thing we learned in his class because it was from Civil War to civil rights at that time period Because you know those are the two mile markers and everything in between there is kind of glossed over. But I came home, and I was like dad you never believed this! Abraham Lincoln didn't free all the slaves!" What did your dad say? What the hell are you talking about?! He didn't actually believe me! Wow... Yeah it's so ingrained

2:05:50 And, oh this is interesting. So did you finally bring him around? I'm not sure. If you learn that for 50, 60 years... It's hard to unlearn that And your college kid comes home and like oh now we're gonna teach you something new it is very um I think is very jarring but these are the facts I mean I know now he understands I mean we had these conversations but in that moment nah he didn't believe me Well as you know

2:06:28 like to leave the show on a low note because that's not what we do. We like to keep our people mentally healthy as well so you can go into after this show continue with your life feeling good about what you've learned right and I found this interesting YouTube channel called Ask a Slave. And I don't even know how I feel about this, to be honest with you. Ask a slave? Is this like cosplay or what's going on with this? Just play the clip man! Alright... Yeah i just wanted to say it- I think if you look at it honestly slavery isn't that bad Oh no this b**** did not come up in here talking that s*** about damn f**king can Hello? You there?

2:07:16 What was it you were saying? Oh yeah, I was just saying...I think slavery is a good industrious life where you got room and board for your work. Ooh yes um mm-hmm Uh, I built my own damn house sir. Wait what? I built my own damn house sir! My husband and I built it out of wood we chopped down from the forest Alright well technically it was probably your master's forest then which means he gave you the wood Which you have to admit was pretty nice Oh yeah he is real nice Let me ask you sir Have you ever build a house before? Ah no Figures Probably had your slaves do it for ya

2:07:54 What is this? What kind of sketch comedy am I listening to. I don't know and i can't get my head around it because if he was conservative driven, It'd have been off YouTube! But what's the visuals on this? What are we seeing on the screen? She's dressed in your typical time period attire but she has people from the present asking her questions And she answers them from that time period. Oh, interesting! Maybe I didn't set the clip up well but I'm just... because I don't know how to take this. Because I'm like hold on when i saw it I was like ask a slave? So automatically I'm triggered. I'm just gonna be honest with you. I'm triggered. What kind of shenanigans is going on here?! But the way she answers the questions as you heard it's funny and it comes off

2:08:55 condescending to the asker. And somewhat right, so I just don't what kind of factual in a way too but it's I just found it funny but I just It's one of those things you don't know me. I don't really know how to take it well hit me with some more You got more of this channel? Yeah, um, but what two sides every coin slavery wasn't just bad for black people white people were slaves too, you know What?! What in the world are you talking about? White people ain't slaves. Yes, there were! There were thousands of Irish slaves Yeah so what's that got to do with anything See I told you there were Now wait a minute You can't be white and irish at the same time Wait a minute...I'm white and i'm irish Oh honey I see the confusion yes your pale as bone fish sure but any god fearing white man will tell ya your just a d*** turned inside out What

2:09:50 Glad I could clear that up for you. Next question? Well, I'm glad there's humor about these things today! That's the good news...that's the good news Yeah, so Wow that's my rap on the 1619 project and everything to ensue but after the release of it well I think we need a new project Although this this whole episode. I think kind of suffices in a way when come up with a good title to To show that that's what we're really talking about here at Moe Thank you so much for this This was a very good

2:10:25 necessary deconstruction of the 1619 project. I've been looking forward to this for a long time, and I learned a lot and actually then beyond that some more And it's good to have this knowledge in your back pocket as we go into the 2020 election. In particular, I would say to pay good attention to Republicans who are touting Lincoln as their big hero and having the right information is always helpful. It can never be too much in my opinion

2:11:04 And I think this goes to speak about what we spoke of on previous shows, about people are coming becoming more educated and the propaganda can't work as well anymore. Just remember you heard it here on a podcast! And as i always say pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself Mo thank you so much for this it was quite the pleasure and I'm pretty sure everybody else had a good time Alright Adam, take care. Take care buddy. One day child I won't have to listen to your lies On that day i'll be able to make up my own mind You know I think I done finally realized Yes I have And now I think I can put you out of my life

2:12:01 I'm gonna be free Yes, I am I'm gonna be free child I'm gonna be free Free Free Free Free One day I'm gonna be free, huh? Yes I will And nothing can make mistakes Not even your money Huh! I know you're gonna think that i'm acting funny Oh, cow

2:12:56 Oh, but I'm getting away from you honey. I'm gonna be free child. Are you listening? I'm gonna be free. Yes I am! I don't need your loving no more. I'm gonna be free oh Lord yeah I can't without you now, girl. I'm on gone! Gone? Gone. Gone. Gone. I don't need no phone call. I'm gone.

2:13:53 I love you, baby!